druS Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) The definition I have is: The system of observation and experimentation (the scientific method) to discover the laws which govern the universe; and the body of knowledge resulting from this system. I would add that by it's very nature it is empirical not metaphysical. Step to philosophy if you wish to go there. But honest, where are you going? Edited May 11, 2018 by druS
nevim Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Vril said: Start at the beginning I say, what is science? Perhaps you could start by saying what you think it is?
Vril Posted May 11, 2018 Author Posted May 11, 2018 9 hours ago, druS said: The definition I have is: The system of observation and experimentation (the scientific method) to discover the laws which govern the universe; and the body of knowledge resulting from this system. I would add that by it's very nature it is empirical not metaphysical. Step to philosophy if you wish to go there. But honest, where are you going? Ain't going nowhere , that was the only question I had thanks. I thought space is what divides events, I must of not understood class.
Phi for All Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Vril said: I thought space is what divides events, I must of not understood class. How does an answer to "What is Science" help with this? And perhaps you should explain what you mean by "divide" and "events", since separating between phenomena seems more like time's job.
iNow Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 Science is a method of exploring the universe in a manner that minimizes the influence of our own biases. 2
Vril Posted May 11, 2018 Author Posted May 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Phi for All said: How does an answer to "What is Science" help with this? And perhaps you should explain what you mean by "divide" and "events", since separating between phenomena seems more like time's job. Why would time separate events , when time is the event ? i.e a Big bang in a multiple arena
beecee Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Vril said: Ain't going nowhere , that was the only question I had thanks. I thought space is what divides events, I must of not understood class. Space stops everything from being together: Time stops everything from happening together. 49 minutes ago, Vril said: Why would time separate events , when time is the event ? i.e a Big bang in a multiple arena Time is a series of events. And if we want to specify any particular event we need the exact coordinates of space, and of course the coordinate of time. 15 hours ago, Vril said: Start at the beginning I say, what is science? Let me answer that with a quote: "Science is simply common sense at its best that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic". Thomas Henry Huxley (1825-95) English biologist. 1
Vril Posted May 12, 2018 Author Posted May 12, 2018 11 hours ago, beecee said: Time stops everything from happening together. How does time stop everything from happening together when things in the Universe are all in motion together at the same time?
koti Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 Just now, Vril said: How does time stop everything from happening together when things in the Universe are all in motion together at the same time? Relativity tells us thats not true. Besides thats not the point, time prevents everything from happening together in the context that there is a past, present and future, without time there wouldn’t be causality.
Vril Posted May 12, 2018 Author Posted May 12, 2018 1 hour ago, koti said: Relativity tells us thats not true. Einstein and relativity does tell us that is not true! What if common sense tells us that it is true ? What if Einstein had some things wrong? Einstein is just one opinion that got agreed with and then taught to the world. What if some of these teachings were wrong? I do not want to really engage in a debate about who is right or wrong, but common sense ''says'' to me that things do happen all at once . In example, it is now on Earth and it is now on the Moon, although the observer may measure time differently , now is always now . Different events are in my opinion just actions in different geometrical positions happening now . A delay in seeing the event is not the same thing as time dividing events. It is the space and distance that divides the events, time divides the synchronous of seeing events. Would you disagree with my opinion?
swansont Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 Science is the testing of ideas to see how nature behaves. 2 hours ago, Vril said: How does time stop everything from happening together when things in the Universe are all in motion together at the same time? They are not in motion at the same place, and the same time. You can cross a street and a bus can drive down the street. Time allows that to happen without having a collision. 2 minutes ago, Vril said: Einstein and relativity does tell us that is not true! What if common sense tells us that it is true ? Common sense doesn't matter. You need to test the idea with experiment or systematic observation. Nature tells us how nature behaves. 2 minutes ago, Vril said: What if Einstein had some things wrong? Einstein is just one opinion that got agreed with and then taught to the world. What if some of these teachings were wrong? It's not opinion. The ideas have been tested, extensively. 2 minutes ago, Vril said: I do not want to really engage in a debate about who is right or wrong, but common sense ''says'' to me that things do happen all at once . See my bus example above. I take you have crossed a street, and not been run over by a bus every time you do it. 2 minutes ago, Vril said: In example, it is now on Earth and it is now on the Moon, although the observer may measure time differently , now is always now . And "now" is not a quantitative description of time.
StringJunky Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vril said: Einstein and relativity does tell us that is not true! What if common sense tells us that it is true ? Relativity shows that commonsense is not to be relied upon.
koti Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 41 minutes ago, Vril said: Einstein and relativity does tell us that is not true! What if common sense tells us that it is true ? What if Einstein had some things wrong? Einstein is just one opinion that got agreed with and then taught to the world. What if some of these teachings were wrong? I do not want to really engage in a debate about who is right or wrong, but common sense ''says'' to me that things do happen all at once . In example, it is now on Earth and it is now on the Moon, although the observer may measure time differently , now is always now . Different events are in my opinion just actions in different geometrical positions happening now . A delay in seeing the event is not the same thing as time dividing events. It is the space and distance that divides the events, time divides the synchronous of seeing events. Would you disagree with my opinion? I can add to swansont’s and StringJunkie’s posts that common sense is deceiving not only in physics but in various orher areas of science and technology. We evolved to have a well working common sense only concerning the stuff that we obseve around us with our senses like rocks flying when thrown, skin burned when you touch fire, etc. Time dilation, lenght contraction, spacetime being a single construct are not things that we observe in every day life with our senses and common sense does a horrible job at judging them.
dimreepr Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, koti said: I can add to swansont’s and StringJunkie’s posts that common sense is deceiving not only in physics but in various orher areas of science and technology. We evolved to have a well working common sense only concerning the stuff that we obseve around us with our senses like rocks flying when thrown, skin burned when you touch fire, etc. Time dilation, lenght contraction, spacetime being a single construct are not things that we observe in every day life with our senses and common sense does a horrible job at judging them. Common sense is/has been a different thread but essentially it depends on the individual level of study; to a person with learning difficulties, fire hurts is common sense, to a person with a Ph.D., common sense can only exist on a spectrum, with few enough variables to find a scientific explanation. Edit to add, and ... Edited May 12, 2018 by dimreepr
koti Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Common sense is/has been a different thread but essentially it depends on the individual level of study; to a person with learning difficulties, fire hurts is common sense, to a person with a Ph.D., common sense can only exist on a spectrum, with few enough variables to find a scientific explanation. Intuition can be useful when you have a high level of knowledge and are dealing with an exremely complex issue. But that intuition has to be trained, backed by mountains of experience so its not really intuition. I think Edward Witten once said that he sometimes depends on his intuition when working with strings but thats a different kind of intuition/comkon sense from what Vril is saying. If you have a framework where there are potencial ~10^-600 possible solutions to a problem you might as well try using intuition to point and shoot...if you’re a genius like Edward Witten that is.
dimreepr Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, koti said: Intuition can be useful when you have a high level of knowledge and are dealing with an exremely complex issue. But that intuition has to be trained, backed by mountains of experience so its not really intuition. Isn't that what I just said? And where are your emoji's? 1
koti Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Isn't that what I just said? And where are your emoji's? I don’t use emoji’s when spending a saturday at mother in law’s. 1
dimreepr Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 1 minute ago, koti said: I don’t use emoji’s when spending a saturday at mother in law’s.
Vril Posted May 12, 2018 Author Posted May 12, 2018 1 hour ago, swansont said: You can cross a street and a bus can drive down the street. Time allows that to happen without having a collision. I have thought about your proposal and have a counter argument. You can cross the street and a bus can come down the street. You can get run over, there is a collision. Time allows that to happen . How did time divide events , when the event was the collision?
dimreepr Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, koti said: I don’t use emoji’s when spending a saturday at mother in law’s. Sorry, Koti, I don't want to offend, but who the fuck gave this a +1? BTW I've given you plenty. 1
koti Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, Vril said: I have thought about your proposal and have a counter argument. You can cross the street and a bus can come down the street. You can get run over, there is a collision. Time allows that to happen . How did time divide events , when the event was the collision? But you don’t get run over every time, don’t you. Sometimes you do and sometimes you don’t, thas why probability works - it wouldn’t without time dividing the events. 3 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Sorry, Koti, I don't want to offend, but who the fuck gave this a +1? BTW I've given you plenty. Probably someone who likes to see me spend a saturday being force fed every 20 minutes while listening to 2 dogs bark chasing a parrot.
dimreepr Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Vril said: I have thought about your proposal and have a counter argument. You can cross the street and a bus can come down the street. You can get run over, there is a collision. Time allows that to happen . How did time divide events , when the event was the collision? 3 TBH the kindest thing is confusing, sometimes, it's kinder to say "of course you're right" and lead them to a padded room, and sometimes it's kinder to say "stop being an idiot, and learn your lines". 4 minutes ago, koti said: Probably someone who likes to see me spend a saturday being force fed every 20 minutes while listening to 2 dogs bark chasing a parrot. 2 Who knows? But it is a good question...
smokequitterv2 Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 Science is the concerted human effort to understand, or to understand better, the history of the natural world and how the natural world works
dimreepr Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 1 minute ago, smokequitterv2 said: Science is the concerted human effort to understand, or to understand better, the history of the natural world and how the natural world works Guess who didn't read the thread?
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