beecee Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) This is still highly controversial in the science world, so if the mods and/or admins see it as more appropriate for "speculation" then I welcome it removal to that section. My thoughts on this have always been that no known laws of physics were ever broken, rather that some apparent as yet unknown aspect could be at work. The following article and hypothetical seems to support those thoughts........ https://www.sciencealert.com/physicists-have-a-weird-new-idea-about-how-the-impossible-em-drive-could-produce-thrust This Overlooked Theory Could Be The Missing Piece That Explains How The EM Drive Works What if it doesn't break the laws of physics? FIONA MACDONALD 7 OCT 2017 Ever since the EM drive first made headlines, science lovers have puzzled over how the propulsion system seems to produce thrust, despite the fact it's 'impossible' according to one of the most fundamental laws of physics - Newton's third law of motion. Now a team of physicists have put forward an alternative explanation - it turns out the EM drive could actually work without breaking any scientific laws, if we factor in a weird and often overlooked idea in quantum physics - pilot wave theory. more at link.....https://www.sciencealert.com/physicists-have-a-weird-new-idea-about-how-the-impossible-em-drive-could-produce-thrust The new research has been published in The Journal of Applied Physical Science International. http://www.ikpress.org/abstract/6485 Abstracts Scientific literature refers to a strange observed phenomenon, “impossible” according to traditional physics, looking at the experimental feasibility of the so called “EM Drive”. The authors have called it an Impulsive Thrust from a Closed Radio-Frequency Cavity in Vacuum. Here we present a possible explanation for the observed thrust based on the conceptual framework of Eurhythmic Physics, a kind of pilot-wave theory aiming at bridging the gap between quantum and macroscopic systems. Applied to the present system, a generalized guidance condition could explain the claimed absence of reaction of the material of the drive on the enclosed fields. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Some later news dated Feb this year..... https://www.nowscience.co.uk/single-post/2018/02/24/China-Claims-They-Have-Successfully-Created-an-EM-Drive China Claims They Have Successfully Created an EM Drive ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; So, how viable is this "Pilot wave theory"? Or is this whole exercise a fraudulent joke played out for the scientific community? The last news I heard on this was that there was enough physics and observational data in this claim, to have it tested in LEO and space. What do others here believe is the case? Edited May 11, 2018 by beecee 2
swansont Posted May 12, 2018 Posted May 12, 2018 15 hours ago, beecee said: So, how viable is this "Pilot wave theory"? Or is this whole exercise a fraudulent joke played out for the scientific community? The last news I heard on this was that there was enough physics and observational data in this claim, to have it tested in LEO and space. What do others here believe is the case? ! Moderator Note This is a part that has to be discussed somewhere else. Not in Science News.
beecee Posted May 12, 2018 Author Posted May 12, 2018 8 hours ago, swansont said: ! Moderator Note This is a part that has to be discussed somewhere else. Not in Science News. OK, noted and will do.
swansont Posted May 22, 2018 Posted May 22, 2018 Some scientists think they have solved the mystery https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/05/nasas-em-drive-is-a-magnetic-wtf-thruster/ "Even with a power of just a couple of Watts, the EM-drive generates thrust in the expected direction (e.g., the torsion bar twists in the right direction). If you reverse the direction of the thruster, the balance swings back the other way: the thrust is reversed. Unfortunately, the EM drive also generates the thrust when the thruster is directed so that it cannot produce a torque on the balance (e.g., the null test also produces thrust). And likewise, that “thrust” reverses when you reverse the direction of the thruster. The best part is that the results are the same when the attenuator is put into the circuit. In this case, there is basically no radiation in the microwave cavity, yet the WTF-thruster thrusts on. So, where does the force come from? The Earth’s magnetic field, most likely. The cables that carry the current to the microwave amplifier run along the arm of the torsion bar. Although the cable is shielded, it is not perfect (because the researchers did not have enough mu metal). The current in the cable experiences a force due to the Earth’s magnetic field that is precisely perpendicular to the torsion bar." 2
Externet Posted May 22, 2018 Posted May 22, 2018 For those following the topic, there is this : -----> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325177082_The_SpaceDrive_Project_-_First_Results_on_EMDrive_and_Mach-Effect_Thrusters
YaDinghus Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 21 hours ago, swansont said: Some scientists think they have solved the mystery https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/05/nasas-em-drive-is-a-magnetic-wtf-thruster/ "Even with a power of just a couple of Watts, the EM-drive generates thrust in the expected direction (e.g., the torsion bar twists in the right direction). If you reverse the direction of the thruster, the balance swings back the other way: the thrust is reversed. Unfortunately, the EM drive also generates the thrust when the thruster is directed so that it cannot produce a torque on the balance (e.g., the null test also produces thrust). And likewise, that “thrust” reverses when you reverse the direction of the thruster. The best part is that the results are the same when the attenuator is put into the circuit. In this case, there is basically no radiation in the microwave cavity, yet the WTF-thruster thrusts on. So, where does the force come from? The Earth’s magnetic field, most likely. The cables that carry the current to the microwave amplifier run along the arm of the torsion bar. Although the cable is shielded, it is not perfect (because the researchers did not have enough mu metal). The current in the cable experiences a force due to the Earth’s magnetic field that is precisely perpendicular to the torsion bar." Saw something about that on Scott Manley's yt channel
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