Trump Suggests "Animals" are Despicable

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Conservatives (Fiscal, Religious, Nationalist, etc) all vote shoulder to shoulder and lean on each other to get their agendas passed. Racism, Sexism, Anti Political correctness, and etc are  tools used to appeal to different conservative leaning groups but the end goal always seems to be deregulation and tax cuts. 

It's no coincidence, that the most productive/humanitarian moments in most countries histories is when the pendulum approaches zero degrees.  

"shoulder to shoulder" IIRC was a clarion call for the unions, as well. 

[MigL]

Sure.
Lets take the generalizations one step further.
Americans have aligned their values and ideals with those of D Trump, by electing him President.
IE all Americans are responsible for making America mean again ( and the laughing stock of the world ).

Or are generalizations only valid when they suit your narrative, Ten oz ?

[Ten oz]

13 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

It's no coincidence, that the most productive/humanitarian moments in most countries histories is when the pendulum approaches zero degrees.  

"shoulder to shoulder" IIRC was a clarion call for the unions, as well. 

Nothing wrong with groups standing shoulder to shoulder. My point was that Conservatives that don't want to be associated with bigots should rethink who they are standing with. 

Also zero doesn't exist. Priorities are always divisible. 

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Ten oz said:

Nothing wrong with groups standing shoulder to shoulder. My point was that Conservatives that don't want to be associated with bigots should rethink who they are standing with.

We all should, bigots have many faces.

3 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Also zero doesn't exist. Priorities are always divisible. 

Which is why I included the word 'approaches'.

[Ten oz]

4 minutes ago, MigL said:

Sure.
Lets take the generalizations one step further.
Americans have aligned their values and ideals with those of D Trump, by electing him President.
IE all Americans are responsible for making America mean again ( and the laughing stock of the world ).

Or are generalizations only valid when they suit your narrative, Ten oz ?

I addressed Ontario's election and Ford's position of debt and taxation after you brought them up but instead you have chose to carry on about Trump and your disdain for generalizations. So fine  lets discuss it. After Charlottesville you argued "both side" just as Trump did. Just last week you started a thread to push the right wing talking point about Samantha Bee & Rosanne Barr. For a guy who insists he is a moderate who disagrees with Trump's nonsense you sure tow Trump's line an awful lot and those were just 2 quick examples which come to mind. 

[Phi for All]

16 minutes ago, MigL said:

Sure.
Lets take the generalizations one step further.
Americans have aligned their values and ideals with those of D Trump, by electing him President.
IE all Americans are responsible for making America mean again ( and the laughing stock of the world ).

Or are generalizations only valid when they suit your narrative, Ten oz ?

Observation supports Ten 0z's stance but not yours. Your generalization has no basis, but yet 87% of US Republicans approve of the job Trump is doing, which includes the stuff that makes him a horrible, divisive commander (he isn't a leader of any kind). You yourself call him out while agreeing with anything you think sounds fiscally conservative. 

[dimreepr]

21 minutes ago, MigL said:

Sure.
Lets take the generalizations one step further.
Americans have aligned their values and ideals with those of D Trump, by electing him President.
IE all Americans are responsible for making America mean again ( and the laughing stock of the world ).

Or are generalizations only valid when they suit your narrative, Ten oz ?

But the generalisation of conservatism is fear, whatever adjective you chose.

[Phi for All]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

But the generalisation of conservatism is fear, whatever adjective you chose.

Which is exploited by those with other agendas, usually money. This explains why fiscal conservatives in the US don't support universal healthcare, even though making Medicare available to everyone would cut medical costs in half (which seems pretty fiscally smart to me). All this rabid nonsense about race and gender is magician's hand-waving, to cover up all the extremist investment opportunities being exploited. The vast majority of Americans get along much better than the media portrays, but that's not sensational enough to entertain.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Phi for All said:

Which is exploited by those with other agendas, usually money. This explains why fiscal conservatives in the US don't support universal healthcare, even though making Medicare available to everyone would cut medical costs in half (which seems pretty fiscally smart to me). All this rabid nonsense about race and gender is magician's hand-waving, to cover up all the extremist investment opportunities being exploited. 

 

Indeed, but the extremes are both left and right.

7 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

The vast majority of Americans people get along much better than the media portrays, but that's not sensational enough to entertain

Or worthy of allowing.

I think it could be argued that the most successful system of governance is a dictatorship, and the most successful dictatorship is when the pendulum approaches zero. 

No system of governance is immune to the vote of its populace.

[MigL]

The only other person I know who hates his fellow citizens because of perceived differences is D Trump.
He hates based on skin color and nationality.

I suggest you and he are more alike than you care to admit, Ten oz.
You hate based on ideology.

Edited June 11, 2018 by MigL

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, MigL said:

The only person I know who hates his fellow citizens because of perceived differences is D Trump.
He hates based on skin color and nationality.

I suggest you and he are more alike than you care to admit. 
You hate based on ideology.

The Pot just called, seems the kettle wants a word; turns out hate/fear claims all the adjectives...

Well, the only ones that seem to matter...

[CharonY]

18 minutes ago, MigL said:

The only other person I know who hates his fellow citizens because of perceived differences is D Trump.
He hates based on skin color and nationality.

I suggest you and he are more alike than you care to admit, Ten oz.
You hate based on ideology.

Not sure what you are trying to say, but Trump voters (which are a sizable proportion of the US) were driven to vote by racial resentment as investigations have shown. I.e. fiscal and other concerns were at best secondary predictors for a Trump vote. A notion that is heavily supported by the administration. Moderate conservatives have been losing out for a long time in the GOP and now they are also under fire from the top.  If you talk to moderate conservatives the common notion is that the crazies have taken over the ship (a trend that has started at least with the Tea Party). So institutionally, the GOP is in fact directly or indirectly adding fuel to the fires of resentment in order to retain control over the increasingly influential proportion of its base that was considered the fringe not terribly long ago.

And also note, that I am not talking about debatable aspects of conservatism, such as  the right fiscal balance. I am talking about full-blown crazy ("both sides" in charlottesville, Soros is Nazi, Obama is Kenyan Muslim) that is increasingly being normalized, with decreasing opposition from the traditional conservatives.

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by CharonY

[Ten oz]

55 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Indeed, but the extremes are both left and right.

Is there an extreme left in North America equivalent to the Right?

[dimreepr]

29 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Is there an extreme left in North America equivalent to the Right?

Not yet.

[Ten oz]

21 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Not yet.

Do you feel there is something coming in the immidiate future? I asked because calling out "both sides" at a time when there is only one side seems like an empty platitude. 

[CharonY]

11 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Do you feel there is something coming in the immidiate future? I asked because calling out "both sides" at a time when there is only one side seems like an empty platitude. 

Also, where is the gravitational center of the pendulum? And is it static? 

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Is there an extreme left in North America equivalent to the Right?

The wackiest, farthest left proposal any major liberal has had in the last 18 years was to ask the UN to monitor our presidential elections for fraud. Let that sink in.

[MigL]

While your concerns might be true if Ten oz spoke only of Republicans, or even American Conservatives, the fact that he labels ALL Conservatives, CharonY, wherever they may be from, is prejudicial and hateful. We did not vote in D Trump, nor support him in any way.
Need I remind that the typical Canadian Conservative is far to the left of Republicans, Democrats and probably even B Sanders ?

I suggest you use a much finer brush, Ten oz.

And while I may have brought up some subjects you did not like and consider unsavory, what I don't like, is the hypocrisy of preaching tolerance and respect for all people, while actively vilifying and disrespecting those that disagree with you.

Edited June 11, 2018 by MigL

[Phi for All]

16 minutes ago, MigL said:

While your concerns might be true if Ten oz spoke only of Republicans, or even American Conservatives, the fact that he labels ALL Conservatives, CharonY, wherever they may be from, is prejudicial and hateful. We did not vote in D Trump, nor support him in any way.
Need I remind that the typical Canadian Conservative is far to the left of Republicans, Democrats and probably even B Sanders ?

I suggest you use a much finer brush, Ten oz.

And while I may have brought up some subjects you did not like and consider unsavory, what I don't like, is the hypocrisy of preaching tolerance and respect for all people, while actively vilifying and disrespecting those that disagree with you.

Once again, your answer leaves me feeling as though you missed his point in order to pick a bone about something else. It has to do with the pride you feel as a "fiscal conservative", that's plain. I remember liking the way Ross Perot and later Jesse Ventura talked about being fiscally conservative but socially liberal. The problem is, none of that really means anything. There are times when being liberal socially isn't being conservative fiscally. There are even more times when it's unclear what the "conservative" choice would be fiscally. You never have addressed my question about whether it's more fiscally conservative to get more bang for your buck or to not spend it in the first place. I would suggest that context matters more than any label you might slap on it, period. 

I think you equate "conservative" with "prudent & wise" in your mind, so that whenever someone uses the word, you immediately jump to defend. I think Ten oz is usually talking about the US conservative politicians who've held our Congress in deadlock for a decade, don't spend money unless it enriches them, their friends, or their donors personally, and aren't interested in fiscal conservancy so much as reducing taxes and regulations that cut into their profit. That's why it always seems like you're not arguing about the same things.

[swansont]

17 hours ago, Ten oz said:

Is there an extreme left in North America equivalent to the Right?

Yes, there is no doubt they exist. But they do not tend to hold office at the higher levels of government in the US, because the fringe is not the base.

[Ten oz]

13 hours ago, MigL said:

While your concerns might be true if Ten oz spoke only of Republicans, or even American Conservatives, the fact that he labels ALL Conservatives, CharonY, wherever they may be from, is prejudicial and hateful. We did not vote in D Trump, nor support him in any way.
Need I remind that the typical Canadian Conservative is far to the left of Republicans, Democrats and probably even B Sanders ?

I suggest you use a much finer brush, Ten oz.

And while I may have brought up some subjects you did not like and consider unsavory, what I don't like, is the hypocrisy of preaching tolerance and respect for all people, while actively vilifying and disrespecting those that disagree with you.

There are a lot of different types of Christians. Within their own tight perspective the differences are so great some refuse to even acknowledge others are Christians at all. For example I think we all know a few Evangelicals who insist Catholics aren't Christians. End of the day though whether one is Baptist, Episcopalian, Non-Denomination, Lutheran, Presbyterian, or etc they are all virtually indistinguishable to non-Christians. What they have in common greatly out weighs their nuanced differences. 

You have repeated labelled yourself a fiscal conservative and brought up Doug Ford and the election in Ontario while at the same time attempt to draw some distinction between yourself as a Canadian and U.S. varieties of Conservatives. Doug Ford ran on cutting taxes, freezing the minimum wage, ending Ontario's Green Energy Act, repealing cap and trade, and has claim Christianity is the only true faith. The issue of debt played heavy role and Ford promised to fix it but does not have a plan at the moment and his initial estimates for spending are high as his opponents were. Now we can debate how successful those policies may or may not be but they don't read as being significantly different to the things conservatives outside of Canada push. Deregulation and Tax Cuts is the gold standard for Conservatives. What's in common seems to greatly outweigh whatever the nuanced differences are.

Both on us have been on this forum for years. I have read at least a hundred of your posts on political issues. So stop with the broad brush nonsense as if there is no way in the world I could possible know about your political views. You literally have typed them out for me over the years. I have specifically read from you what your views are and in my opinion those views as I have read them are in line with what I understand Conservative positions to be. 

[dimreepr]

18 hours ago, Ten oz said:

Do you feel there is something coming in the immidiate future?

The timescale is unknowable, but there is always something coming.

18 hours ago, Ten oz said:

I asked because calling out "both sides" at a time when there is only one side seems like an empty platitude. 

I wasn't calling anyone out, I was merely making an observation.

18 hours ago, CharonY said:

Also, where is the gravitational center of the pendulum? And is it static? 

Depends on the culture which is always fluid.

[MigL]

I'm glad you think you know me so well, Ten oz.
I think I've come to know quite a bit about your character as well.

As For D Ford I only mentioned him in passing while describing the current state of affairs in Ontario and our ballooning deficit.
But that would have to mean you actually read other's posts, and don't already have preconceived notions.

I mentioned several months back how I was going to vote in this election, as I only have respect for one of the leaders, Andrea Horwath.
She happens to lead the NDP, a SOCIALIST party. So I have no idea why you keep referring to D Ford.
But that would have to mean you actually read other's posts, and don't already have preconceived notions.

That speaks volumes about your character !

I'm sure others are bored by our bickering ( at least Phi is ), so I'll give it a rest.
You go ahead and keep on going, if you like.
There's plenty of other stuff to make up about me.

Edited June 12, 2018 by MigL

[Ten oz]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

I'm glad you think you know me so well, Ten oz.
I think I've come to know quite a bit about your character as well.

I commented on your political leanings and not your character. I don't know anything about you beyond what you have posted.

[Silvestru]

What a heated exchange. I'm sweating like a dyslexic on a countdown. Can we stay on topic please, this thread was educational1 page before  .