So who's going to win the world cup?

[Airbrush]

The final between France and Croatia was a great match!  See the highlights below!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY3Z3od-kE8 

Notice the penalty kick by France?  It was delivered into the lower corner to the goalie's right.  But goalie dove the OTHER way.  That would have been blocked easily if the goalie dove to his right.  The last goal by Croatia was a fluke, a severe goalie blunder.  If you discount these 2 goals, France still won convincingly 3-1.  Congrats to France. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Airbrush

[DrP]

I liked the VAR introduction for the tournament. Although it was a bit harsh on Croatia to concede the penalty like that....  it was clearly a hand ball in the box and the ref missed it.  Took about 30 seconds for him to review it on the screen and make a decision. Harsh for them - but right if it was a hand ball.  Better than having that sort of thing be hit and miss as to whether the ref sees it or not imo.  I wasn't sure it was intentional or not - but what matters is that the ref missed the whole thing and was able to, quickly, go and view it and make a proper decision.

You are right - that 2nd Croatia one was a fluke/goalie error for sure..  It came out of nowhere.   

[dimreepr]

18 hours ago, Lord Antares said:

You say it like every yellow/red card foul is automatically an injury. It's not and yellows are fairly common and this could be abused every time one is given. Who would know the difference?

 

Who cares? 

[zapatos]

37 minutes ago, Airbrush said:

The final between France and Croatia was a great match!  See the highlights below!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY3Z3od-kE8 

Notice the penalty kick by France?  It was delivered into the lower corner to the goalie's right.  But goalie dove the OTHER way.  That would have been blocked easily if the goalie dove to his right.  The last goal by Croatia was a fluke, a severe goalie blunder.  If you discount these 2 goals, France still won convincingly 3-1.  Congrats to France. 

From my perspective they convincingly won 2-1. The first French goal came after a mistaken foul call at the top of the box, followed by an own goal.

Luck plays a part in the game and are of course valid, but only two of France's goals were the result of strong play by France.

[DrP]

6 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Luck plays a part in the game and are of course valid, but only two of France's goals were the result of strong play by France.

That may be so - but the rules are rules and it WAS handed away by the defender...  which is a penalty and it led to a goal.  Bit harsh - but fair enough.

[MigL]

I would argue that any goal changes the game completely, Zap.

Admittedly Croatia played hard right to the end and never gave up trying to find an equalizer, but if you've played the game, you know that being behind forces a much different style of play. The need to be aggressive when behind forces a much more 'open' style of play. Unfortunately that also leaves you open defensively and can lead to the other team scoring even more goals which might not have happened otherwise ( or been deserved by the quality of play ).

But what do I know, I'm still crying in my pint over England's loss.

[taeto]

On 7/8/2018 at 7:57 PM, Airbrush said:

How can you change the game so there is more scoring?

I just noticed this thread, so my answer unfortunately comes a little late to be of any use in the then ongoing tournament. But it surely will be implemented with success in future championships. This is an idea that I have had for years, actually I have been a proponent of this idea even before the time when, for several independent reasons, all my friends with whom I used to discuss the game mysteriously chose to severe our bonds, after which I have never heard from any of them again.

The ultimate aim is to increase the number of scorings in the game, to ensure that enough entertainment is provided, which boosts the interest of the punters and provides financial benefits to the investors and advertisers. I will take a small percentage, if it is not too much to ask.

I explain how to dramatically increase the number of goals scored in any game. And actually, in complete contrast to the current state of the game, the number of goals will increase the most in the top level games relative to the lower levels. If you ever attended games between teams consisting of pre-school children, you are aware that scores like 8-5 or 14-0 are not that unusual, and yet, noone would want to pay to watch those games on a huge stadium or televised. We will change this, so that results like that will eventually count as very low score between the top professional teams.

Concerning the rules of the game on the pitch, make the following changes. 

None, no changes to the offside rules, how long the goalie can hold on to the ball, what happens when you slaughter the opponent, when you take a dive or remove the clothing on your upper body (special provision may apply to women's games), the size of the field or the goals, the colour of the grass. No changes whatsoever. Keep it exactly as it is. 

The single change concerns the point system.

Nowadays the team that scores more goals than the opponent team gets awarded 3 points, in which case the losing team gets 0 points, with the proviso that if both teams score the same number of goals, each is awarded 1 point. At the end of a championship/tournament the points of all teams are tallied up, and the team with the most point gets awarded first place. In the case of a tie, there are tiebreaker rules that include the goal differences and the number of goals that the teams have scored during the season.

In future, the team that scores more goals than the opponent team gets awarded 1 point, the losing team gets 0 points, and if both teams score the same number of goals, each is awarded 3 points instead. Again, at the end of a championship, the team with the most points, and in case of tie having the best tiebreakers, become champions.

Imagine how much this simple rule change will liven up the games. Obviously each team is hugely motivated towards achieving a tied game to gain the maximum 3 points towards the championship tally. Doubtless almost every game in a championship with teams of professional players should end in a tie, and quite possibly all of them. With practically all teams having gained maximal points at the end of  season and a level goal difference, the decision about first place comes down to the number of goals scored. In fact, in every game the strategy of both teams will have to be to score exactly as many goals as the opponent, and, subject to that, as many goals as possible. Final game scores of 50 - 50 should easily become the norm, if not more, so that will be more than one goal every minute. If that is not good enough for you, go and watch basketball instead. Surely as to NFL you can forget about their laughable score lines.

Nowadays, the goalies are pesky creatures, as their objective is to prevent goals, which is counter to our desire. This will no longer happen. It is all in the best interest of both teams on the pitch that as many goals get scored as possible, so long as the score remains level. In fact it will become the primary task of a goaltender to make sure that the ball gets hammered into the net behind him or her as quickly as possible, before the game starts again with a replacement ball from the center spot.

If the game did not have a bright future before, I feel certain that it has one now. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by taeto

[Airbrush]

2 hours ago, zapatos said:

From my perspective they convincingly won 2-1. The first French goal came after a mistaken foul call at the top of the box, followed by an own goal.

Can you find a YouTube video that shows the mistaken foul call?  I thought that direct kick was brilliantly accurate.  Even the head-nudge by the Croatian defender could not stop it!  But you say it should never have been called?

[zapatos]

They showed it in slow motion right after it was called. The attacking player lost his footing and began to fall before he was touched. The announcers agreed. If only the referee could see in stop-action super slow motion!

Not that either of us can prove it, but I felt like the goalie would have had the ball if not for the last second deflection.

[Airbrush]

21 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Not that either of us can prove it, but I felt like the goalie would have had the ball if not for the last second deflection.

Yes it "took a wicked deflection."  The ball would have entered the goal within reach of the goalie.  The head-nudge pushed the ball higher and out of his reach!  The goalie was trying to figure out the new trajectory of the ball after the header and didn't have time to react.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY3Z3od-kE8

The foul is at 0:30.  Looks like a real free kick foul.  However, it also looks like the Frenchman did a good job of faking contact.  Hard to tell.

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Airbrush

[MigL]

Why exactly does it need higher scoring/more excitement.

It is already the most watched tournament on the planet.

Incidentally, this strategy of going up one goal, and then defending for the rest of the game seems to have been started by the Italians.
In the late 70s to the early 00s, they had arguably the best defensive line up in the world.
They don't anymore; And where are they today ?

England tried that strategy against Croatia. They did no attacking during the second half or the extra time.
If you invite the opposing side into your end, and simply try to defend, eventually they'll put one in the back of the net.
Even faster if your defense isn't capable of absorbing the opponents attacks. England's certainly wasn't against Modric, Mandzukic and Raketic.

Notice that the French defense was able to mostly hold off Belgium's attacks. And Belgium had arguably some of the best attacking players in the world.

[taeto]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

Why exactly does it need higher scoring/more excitement.

Compare with boxing, and here I suppose that I am thinking of the classical sport, where you are not allowed to kick our opponent in the face, but in principle it does not matter a lot. You cannot deny that it has excitement, just look at the crowds that the big fights gather, and the interest from the media. And yet, the decision of the fight typically comes down to just one single deciding hit. The excitement is all about that anything could happen in the next second to decide the outcome. 

[MigL]

The crowds that big boxing fights draw ???

The World Cup final was played in a sold-out stadium which holds 81000 people.
And I don't have numbers for this final, but worldwide  viewership was over one billion for the 2014 final.

Nearly half the world, 3.2 billion people, watched some part of the 2014 tournament.

I'd say those people were excited about it, or they have a different definition of excitement than you.

[John Cuthber]

8 hours ago, taeto said:

Compare with boxing, and here I suppose that I am thinking of the classical sport, where you are not allowed to kick our opponent in the face, but in principle it does not matter a lot. You cannot deny that it has excitement,

Two  adults doing something they should have grown out of in the school playground is not my idea of entertainment.

I guess it's exciting, but the people who get caught in a train crash get excited- that doesn't make it a good thing.

[Airbrush]

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 8:33 PM, MigL said:

…...Nearly half the world, 3.2 billion people, watched some part of the 2014 tournament.

I'd say those people were excited about it, or they have a different definition of excitement than you.

Perhaps if you eliminated the goalie position, scoring would be higher and even more people would be interested! 

[John Cuthber]

3 hours ago, Airbrush said:

Perhaps if you eliminated the goalie position, scoring would be higher and even more people would be interested! 

Or it wouldn't be football, and fewer people would be interested.

[Airbrush]

Can anyone explain the rules for a goalie, and the kicker, during a penalty kick?  Is the goalie supposed to not move until the kicker kicks, or when?  When is the optimal moment for the goalie to dive for whichever corner he decides to dive for?

[koti]

7 minutes ago, Airbrush said:

Can anyone explain the rules for a goalie, and the kicker, during a penalty kick?  Is the goalie supposed to not move until the kicker kicks, or when?  When is the optimal moment for the goalie to dive for whichever corner he decides to dive for?

The goalie can move however he wants, he can (and in fact has to) jump prior to the kick to be able to defend because the goal is quite large. The kicker cannot stop while the kick is being made, this prevents the goal keeper jumping one direction and the kicker sending the ball the opposite end of the goal.

Edited July 21, 2018 by koti

[zapatos]

11 hours ago, koti said:

The goalie can move however he wants, he can (and in fact has to) jump prior to the kick to be able to defend because the goal is quite large. The kicker cannot stop while the kick is being made, this prevents the goal keeper jumping one direction and the kicker sending the ball the opposite end of the goal.

The goalie can only move side to side and must stay on the line until the ball has been kicked.

[koti]

4 hours ago, zapatos said:

The goalie can only move side to side and must stay on the line until the ball has been kicked.

Im not an expert but how come goalies jump the opposite side of where the ball flies if they have to stay on the line untill the ball has been kicked?

[dimreepr]

4 hours ago, koti said:

Im not an expert but how come goalies jump the opposite side of where the ball flies if they have to stay on the line untill the ball has been kicked?

They're very bad at guessing, I guess... but never mind that, who's going to win "Le Tour de France"?

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

They're very bad at guessing, I guess... but never mind that, who's going to win "Le Tour de France"?

Whoever's doing the most steroids.

[dimreepr]

42 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Whoever's doing the most steroids.

Well, now we need a devil's advocate/placebo/fall guy, etc...

[zapatos]

12 hours ago, koti said:

Im not an expert but how come goalies jump the opposite side of where the ball flies if they have to stay on the line untill the ball has been kicked?

The line extends goal post to goal post. They can move along the line and therefore jump prior to the kick. What they cannot do is leave the line and move toward the kicker prior to the ball being kicked.

[Airbrush]

12 hours ago, koti said:

Im not an expert but how come goalies jump the opposite side of where the ball flies if they have to stay on the line untill the ball has been kicked?

I was also wondering that.  

Is it possible for the kicker to "read" the goalie and change direction during the kick?

My guess is that in general the kicker has more accuracy kicking with their dominant foot to the opposite side of the goal.  For example, since I am right-footed, I would have best accuracy kicking towards my left side of the goal, which would be the goalie's right.

In the World Cup match France Vs Croatia, the French penalty kick was low, towards the kickers left (goalie's right) but goalie already made the decision to dive to his left.  If he had decided to dive the other way he would have easily blocked the shot.

That is why I ask why don't world-class soccer players practice hitting the top 2 corners which are impossible to defend?  Because when you practice shooting HIGH whenever you miss, the ball sails a long way to be retrieved.  They should shoot at targets on a wall to practice.  

12 minutes ago, zapatos said:

The line extends goal post to goal post. They can move along the line and therefore jump prior to the kick. What they cannot do is leave the line and move toward the kicker prior to the ball being kicked.

Right.  The goalie dives to one side and forward to restrict the angle of the shot.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Airbrush