Einstein was a racist?

[Endercreeper01]

It was found that Einstein's diaries contained detailed observations about different ethnic groups.

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/06/13/einsteins-diaries-contain-shocking-details-his-racism.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44472277

However some are labeling him a racist for his writings.

We always seem to hear about people being labeled a racist, even when there are no bad intentions involved.

This case is unique since it involves a famous scientist who was applying his observational skills in a way that would make him look like a racist.

Is this something that should be called racist? Or is it justified anyways?

Edited June 13, 2018 by Endercreeper01

[Sensei]

Quote

“Chinese don’t sit on benches while eating but squat like Europeans do when they relieve themselves out in the leafy woods. "

"Asian squat" is pretty unpleasant for people who are not doing it entire life e.g. Europeans. It looks like this:

Einstein's words are just description "how it looks like" for people who have no idea.. (now we can simply show photo instead)

 

Quote

"All this occurs quietly and demurely. Even the children are spiritless and look obtuse.”

He was talking about Chinese people, he met during travel, one hundred years ago.. about poor and hungry people living there in unacceptable now conditions..

Hungry people are rarely spiritful/vigorous..

 

[Ten oz]

Einstein was opposed to the Racism. I think there is a lot of context missing in his negative comments about the cultures he criticized.  Japan for example sided with the Nazis Einstein fled. I read his comments as put downs of nation's more so than races of people. Every country isn't a separate race and often when people dislike the behave of a country they dis it's people. Still ugly but there is a difference. 

Quote

 

As reported by Smithsonian Magazine, Einstein publicly aligned himself with the values of the U.S. civil rights movement. In 1931, while still in Germany, he submitted an essay to the famous black sociologist, anti-capitalist, and anti-racist writer W.E.B. Du Bois' magazine The Crisis. Later, during a speech at Lincoln University in Pennsylvania, he said, "There is separation of colored people from white people in the United States. It is a disease of white people. I do not intend to be quiet about it."

https://amp-livescience-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.livescience.com/62813-einstein-racist.html?amp_js_v=a1&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s

 

 

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, Endercreeper01 said:

We always seem to hear about people being labeled a racist, even when there are no bad intentions involved.

No, we don't. You're making a generalized appeal to emotion rather than an actual observation. 

[Ten oz]

7 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

No, we don't. You're making a generalized appeal to emotion rather than an actual observation. 

Even if the observation were true it still wouldn't provide any individual racist cover. Lots of people speed yet I can't use that as an excuse to get out of a speeding ticket. 

[Ken Fabian]

In a world without chairs, everyone will squat. Not the best of observations to assign that to any specific nation or race; white anglo old timers mustering cattle would squat around their campfires here in Australia, and probably a lot still do. And Darwin probably distractedly swiped at flies without noticing that he was feeling them through small body hairs - the hairs he was convinced served no useful function in man. Even highly skilled observers can get things wrong.

I don't know about Einstein, however I expect racist sentiments, mixed with interpretations and misinterpretations of Darwin's work, were so widespread and unchallenged as to be seen as normal - even whilst, as a jew in Germany - he would have been subjected to ones he knew to be unwarranted. Sound like he may have spent time thinking about issues arising. Meanwhile his contributions to physics remain immense and beyond dispute.

[Phi for All]

13 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Even if the observation were true it still wouldn't provide any individual racist cover. Lots of people speed yet I can't use that as an excuse to get out of a speeding ticket. 

We always seem to hear about people being interested in ways to justify their abusive behavior. 

[Endercreeper01]

2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

No, we don't. You're making a generalized appeal to emotion rather than an actual observation. 

I was making a general statement about how racism is treated. Racism is treated badly in some instances where it shouldn't be considered bad.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Endercreeper01

[iNow]

21 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

Racism is treated badly in some instances where it shouldn't be considered bad.

You’ve yet to offer s single example of one of these instances. Kindly please do so now. 

[Endercreeper01]

2 minutes ago, iNow said:

You’ve yet to offer s single example of one of these instances. Kindly please do so now. 

This post is an example. Differences between groups of people can be acknowledged without being considered wrong.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Endercreeper01

[iNow]

1 minute ago, Endercreeper01 said:

This post is an example. Differences between groups of people can be acknowledged without being considered wrong.

Just as I thought. Another empty bullshit claim you have absolutely no intention of standing behind and supporting. 

[Endercreeper01]

27 minutes ago, iNow said:

Just as I thought. Another empty bullshit claim you have absolutely no intention of standing behind and supporting. 

I was making a general statement relating to general attitudes concerning racism.

[iNow]

5 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

I was making a general statement relating to general attitudes concerning racism.

That was never unclear to me. I’ve asked you for specific examples, here and in other threads where you’ve made this same bullshit claim, and you’ve unsurprisingly once again profoundly failed to rise to the challenge. 

[Endercreeper01]

1 minute ago, iNow said:

That was never unclear to me. I’ve asked you for specific examples, here and in other threads where you’ve made this same bullshit claim, and you’ve unsurprisingly once again profoundly failed to rise to the challenge. 

I thought that this thread provides an example of such relating with Einstein.

[iNow]

1 minute ago, Endercreeper01 said:

I thought that this thread provides an example of such relating with Einstein.

Your claim: Racism is treated badly in some instances where it shouldn't be considered bad.

My request: Provide even a single example of such an instance. 

Your failure: How much time do you have to go through the list?

Let’s just start with you thinking this thread or the topic introduced by the OP is a valid reference in response. 

[Endercreeper01]

Just now, iNow said:

Your claim: Racism is treated badly in some instances where it shouldn't be considered bad.

My request: Provide even a single example of such an instance. 

Your failure: How much time do you have to go through the list?

Let’s just start with you thinking this thread or the topic introduced by the OP is a valid reference in response. 

The OP concerns with something that could be called racism in that it relates the stereotyping of different groups of people.

The way that this is being treated as bad is what I am referring to when I say that it shouldn't be considered bad in certain situations, in that the stereotyping of different groups of people isn't exactly bad and shouldn't be considered such in and of itself.

[DrP]

2 hours ago, Endercreeper01 said:

The way that this is being treated as bad is what I am referring to when I say that it shouldn't be considered bad in certain situations, in that the stereotyping of different groups of people isn't exactly bad and shouldn't be considered such in and of itself.

Did you read the first 6 replies to the thread?  Pointing out the differences in culture between nations isn't racism.  

 

[mistermack]

I think that there is no such thing as good and bad. In the religious sense. I prefer "nice" and "nasty". While I objectively think that it's not intrinsically good or bad to act in a racist manner, and nothing any of us do will count for anything in a million years time, I'm still prepared to go along with my human instinct of approving of what's nice, and disapproving of what's nasty. 

We humans have both nice and nasty instincts living in us, side by side. Racism is nasty, in the modern world, with people being incredibly mobile. In the world in which we evolved, a world of territorial apes, who needed to defend their territory against their neighbours or starve, or be killed, it wasn't so much nasty as necessary. So we all have dna that gives us racist tendencies. The modern fashion is to work against that, with social education etc. to increase niceness for all, and I'm all for that. But I'm not in any way ashamed of any racist instincts that might crop up in my head, they come from my daddy's sperm and mother's egg.

Having said that, I think that Einstein was remarkably non-racist for his time, and would have been in the one percent least racist easily. Being part of a minority obviously gave him a different outlook to the majority, but that didn't apply to every jew at the time. 

While maybe not matching today's standards of political correctness now and then, you have to realise that nobody did, in those days. Times have changed. He was still one of the least racist of his time. 

[Endercreeper01]

3 hours ago, DrP said:

Did you read the first 6 replies to the thread?  Pointing out the differences in culture between nations isn't racism.  

 

Pointing out differences in culture is still pointing out differences between groups of people. Differences pointed out between the races should be treated the same way as differences pointed out between cultures.

[koti]

22 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

...Differences pointed out between the races should be treated the same way as differences pointed out between cultures.

Did you become officially nuts while in your quest for justifying your racism? Read again what you wrote.

Edited June 14, 2018 by koti

[Endercreeper01]

11 minutes ago, koti said:

Did you become officially nuts while in your quest for justifying your racism? Read again what you wrote.

What I meant to say was that pointing out differences between groups of people should not be treated badly, and that it includes differences between the races.

[YaDinghus]

9 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

What I meant to say was that pointing out differences between groups of people should not be treated badly, and that it includes differences between the races.

So I'm whitish, my wife is latin, my best friend is a total cheesecake, another friend of mine has black skin, and many of my business contacts are Asian. 'Race' only goes as deep as skin. Differences between individuals are so strong that the differences you point out in statistics aren't even statisticaly significant in comparison

[Ten oz]

12 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

What I meant to say was that pointing out differences between groups of people should not be treated badly, and that it includes differences between the races.

This conclusion is not supported by anything Einstein believed. It is your own unfortunate world view. Einstein publicly spoke out against racism for decades. You are taking a few comments not meant for public consumption and running wild with them. 

Quote

 

Einstein saw racism as a fundamental stumbling block to freedom. In both his science and his politics, Einstein believed in the need for individual liberty: the ability to follow ideas and life paths without fear of oppression. And he knew from his experiences as a Jewish scientist in Germany how easily that freedom could be destroyed in the name of nationalism and patriotism. In a 1946 commencement speech at Lincoln University, the oldest black college in the U.S., Einstein decried American racism in no uncertain terms.

“There is separation of colored people from white people in the United States,” said the renowned physicist, using the common term in the day. “That separation is not a disease of colored people. It is a disease of white people. I do not intend to be quiet about it.”

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-celebrity-scientist-albert-einstein-used-fame-denounce-american-racism-180962356/

 

 

[swansont]

59 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

Pointing out differences in culture is still pointing out differences between groups of people. Differences pointed out between the races should be treated the same way as differences pointed out between cultures.

!

Moderator Note

This is not the topic of the thread and you have been warned not to take up the banner of defending an agenda, so just stop it here, please, before you take that next step.

 

[dimreepr]

Mr. Creeper, the following question is a genuine inquiry: Why are you still here? This is a 'science' discussion forum and you clearly have no intention to discuss, and your definition of science is... Well, singular, and every one of your sermons has not only been rejected but utterly trounced