Amazon - Threat or Thrive?

[Endy0816]

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Something which accorded to me this morning while reading an article about the former Cambridge Analytica CEO's testimony before parliament in the UK was that Amazon potentially could do far worse than those who mine social media. Amazon is able to collect data on what you buy, eat, own, watch, read, and etc. Amazon's potential to manipulate the general people grow exponentially by the day. 

All companies do this of course. Netflix has algorithms which attempt to predict what I might like to watch. For the most part its convenient. However when a company is as diversified as Amazon they aren't just influencing which movie you watch. 

Most places sell purchase history.

Amazon has something of an advantage but not a huge one there.

They try to sell me things and not an agenda, so not real concerned myself.

 

I think things will probably end up split between Alibaba and Amazon. Hard to say yet but we do tend towards twos.

I do see 3d print shops taking off though. Individualized products on demand. Already seeing more custom print, wraps, etc. shops.

[Ten oz]

46 minutes ago, Endy0816 said:

Most places sell purchase history.

Amazon has something of an advantage but not a huge one there.

They try to sell me things and not an agenda, so not real concerned myself.

 

I think things will probably end up split between Alibaba and Amazon. Hard to say yet but we do tend towards twos.

I do see 3d print shops taking off though. Individualized products on demand. Already seeing more custom print, wraps, etc. shops.

Brick and mortar stores do not get an individuals info from cash purchases. Also even if one uses a card they do not capture the same amount of information that Amazon does. For example the address one might bank with isn't always the one a person has items delivered to. Plus Amazon sells everything where as Brick and Mortar stores general specialize in a specific market. A grocery store has insight into what cereal and vegetables you like but not a whole lot else. Amazon knows everything you like food, furniture, clothes, electronics, who your friends are, where you travel, and etc.  As StringJunky eluded to Amazon even has devices listening to you in your home. 

Provided this information is purely used to tailor ads for products I might be interested in I don't see a problem with it. However just as Cambridge Analytica mined social media to magnify propaganda so to could Amazon's data. 

[StringJunky]

8 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Brick and mortar stores do not get an individuals info from cash purchases. Also even if one uses a card they do not capture the same amount of information that Amazon does. For example the address one might bank with isn't always the one a person has items delivered to. Plus Amazon sells everything where as Brick and Mortar stores general specialize in a specific market. A grocery store has insight into what cereal and vegetables you like but not a whole lot else. Amazon knows everything you like food, furniture, clothes, electronics, who your friends are, where you travel, and etc.  As StringJunky eluded to Amazon even has devices listening to you in your home. 

Provided this information is purely used to tailor ads for products I might be interested in I don't see a problem with it. However just as Cambridge Analytica mined social media to magnify propaganda so to could Amazon's data. 

At the least, they can be part of  the NSA mass surveillance apparatus, by design or in ignorance.

[Endy0816]

3 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Brick and mortar stores do not get an individuals info from cash purchases. Also even if one uses a card they do not capture the same amount of information that Amazon does. For example the address one might bank with isn't always the one a person has items delivered to. Plus Amazon sells everything where as Brick and Mortar stores general specialize in a specific market. A grocery store has insight into what cereal and vegetables you like but not a whole lot else. Amazon knows everything you like food, furniture, clothes, electronics, who your friends are, where you travel, and etc.  As StringJunky eluded to Amazon even has devices listening to you in your home. 

Provided this information is purely used to tailor ads for products I might be interested in I don't see a problem with it. However just as Cambridge Analytica mined social media to magnify propaganda so to could Amazon's data. 

Its the credit card companies and banks selling it mostly, though even brick and mortars sell what info they can. Many offer loyalty cards to help with the cash transaction issue.

 

[Ten oz]

1 hour ago, Endy0816 said:

Its the credit card companies and banks selling it mostly, though even brick and mortars sell what info they can. Many offer loyalty cards to help with the cash transaction issue.

 

I am not denying this. Rather I am just pointing out that what Amazon has is far more extensive. 

[Ten oz]

On 6/18/2018 at 1:19 PM, Phi for All said:

Retailers often claim Amazon is going to put them out of business. They also said that about Costco and Home Depot, but even those big box retailers complain that Amazon eats too much into their brick and mortar business market. 

Part of me loves Amazon, since it let's me (seemingly) disconnect from the mainstream consumer train, only buying exactly what I need without having to mess with travel to a bunch of brick stores, being inundated by the general marketing once I'm there, and having to deal with all the people who dislike their jobs because of poor pay (because their employer has to compete with Amazon?). It pleases me to think Amazon knows who has just what I'm looking for, and is happy to introduce us so everyone is happy with their purchases. 

A yet to be discussed in depth business Amazon may soon be putting out of business are Delivery companies;

Quote

 

Watch out FedEx, UPS, DHL and the U.S. Postal Service: Amazon is building its own last-mile delivery service.

The e-commerce behemoth announced on Thursday its new Delivery Service Partners program — designed to let entrepreneurs run their own local delivery networks of up to 40 vans emblazoned with Prime logos.

Each delivery unit will start their day at one of 75 current Amazon stations in the U.S. where parcels ordered from Amazon.com are picked up by drivers wearing blue-collared shirts with an Amazon logo and black hats. Algorithms will determine which packages are sent to these delivery stations, and which are sent to other delivery partners, like FedEx and UPS.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/27/amazon-is-recruiting-entrepreneurs-to-start-delivery-networks.html

 

From what I have read Amazon plans to do this akin to Uber. Anyone with a vehicle interested in making deliveries will be able to do it. I see this as more unfortunately than the loss of retail. Most retail jobs pay near the bottom of local averages. FedEx, UPS, the Postal Service, and etc are decent jobs millions make permanent careers of. I would actually be interested in seeing govts move to protect this industry. 

In the UK taxi drivers must pass a more rigorous test than merely just have a license and they drive vehicles actually designed to transport passengers. Such doesn't apply to Uber which is why in the UK groups like Transport for London (TFL) have being lobby so hard against Uber. Quality taxi service jobs will be replaced by a part time transient fleet using common vehicles. Perhaps govt should pass standards for what a package delivery service must be (insurance, training, equipment, security, etc)? 

On the other hand in the U.S. politicians manipulated policies at the U.S. Postal Service to intentionally undermine it in favor of enabling growth in the private sector among FedEx and UPS. So I suppose it is only fair those companies now succumb to that same market places forces they themselves championed for decades. 

[iNow]

They also just bought a mail order pharmacy

[StringJunky]

6 minutes ago, iNow said:

They also just bought a mail order pharmacy

That's part of a long-term plan with Warren buffet's group and Morgan Chase to bring down healthcare costs to US businesses and their own employees in the US. Good luck to them.

Quote

The move by three of the best-known U.S. business leaders - Amazon’s Jeff Bezos, Berkshire’s Warren Buffett and JPMorgan’s Jamie Dimon - would take on the world’s most expensive healthcare system, whose mounting costs have hurt corporate profit. Shares of U.S. healthcare companies fell across the board.

The new, not-for-profit venture will initially focus on technology for “simplified, high-quality and transparent healthcare” for their more than 500,000 U.S. employees, the companies said. They did not elaborate on their strategy, but said they are searching for a chief executive officer. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-healthcare/amazon-berkshire-jpmorgan-partner-to-cut-healthcare-costs-idUSKBN1FJ1NF

 

[Endy0816]

2 hours ago, Ten oz said:

A yet to be discussed in depth business Amazon may soon be putting out of business are Delivery companies;

From what I have read Amazon plans to do this akin to Uber. Anyone with a vehicle interested in making deliveries will be able to do it. I see this as more unfortunately than the loss of retail. Most retail jobs pay near the bottom of local averages. FedEx, UPS, the Postal Service, and etc are decent jobs millions make permanent careers of. I would actually be interested in seeing govts move to protect this industry. 

In the UK taxi drivers must pass a more rigorous test than merely just have a license and they drive vehicles actually designed to transport passengers. Such doesn't apply to Uber which is why in the UK groups like Transport for London (TFL) have being lobby so hard against Uber. Quality taxi service jobs will be replaced by a part time transient fleet using common vehicles. Perhaps govt should pass standards for what a package delivery service must be (insurance, training, equipment, security, etc)? 

On the other hand in the U.S. politicians manipulated policies at the U.S. Postal Service to intentionally undermine it in favor of enabling growth in the private sector among FedEx and UPS. So I suppose it is only fair those companies now succumb to that same market places forces they themselves championed for decades. 

You are saying people with the extra capacity should be restricted from working, in favor of incumbents.

Mostly that just isn't logical and notably increases cost.

 

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

That's part of a long-term plan with Warren buffet's group and Morgan Chase to bring down healthcare costs to US businesses and their own employees in the US. Good luck to them.

 

 Yeah, that's what I like about Amazon, they serm to be trying to improve things.

[Ten oz]

2 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

You are saying people with the extra capacity should be restricted from working, in favor of incumbents.

Mostly that just isn't logical and notably increases cost.

It most situations I would agree however putting a business which pay decent mid income salaries to millions of people out of business in favor of a transient part time work force collecting a little extra money, but not a primary living wage, doesn't make sense. Between FedEx, UPS, DHL, and the Postal Service nearly 2 million people employed.This isn't a case we're the industry, package delivery, has become obsolete but rather a case we're a huge Corporation has found a cost saving work around. Of course it is cheaper to toss a few bucks at someone to deliver a few boxes outvof the back of their  car between shift from their real job. Is that the sort of industry we want in society? Phi for All made a good point early about brick and mortar stores making larger more permanent investments in a community. Same applies to businesses like FedEx. 

Nothing against Uber and Lyft but I do not want everything being done by part time, untrained, non-professionals. 

[Phi for All]

7 hours ago, Ten oz said:

On the other hand in the U.S. politicians manipulated policies at the U.S. Postal Service to intentionally undermine it in favor of enabling growth in the private sector among FedEx and UPS. So I suppose it is only fair those companies now succumb to that same market places forces they themselves championed for decades. 

It will be a travesty when the money addicts buy enough politicians to privatize the USPS. Having their cake, and eating ours too.

[Endy0816]

17 hours ago, Ten oz said:

It most situations I would agree however putting a business which pay decent mid income salaries to millions of people out of business in favor of a transient part time work force collecting a little extra money, but not a primary living wage, doesn't make sense. Between FedEx, UPS, DHL, and the Postal Service nearly 2 million people employed.This isn't a case we're the industry, package delivery, has become obsolete but rather a case we're a huge Corporation has found a cost saving work around. Of course it is cheaper to toss a few bucks at someone to deliver a few boxes outvof the back of their  car between shift from their real job. Is that the sort of industry we want in society? Phi for All made a good point early about brick and mortar stores making larger more permanent investments in a community. Same applies to businesses like FedEx. 

Nothing against Uber and Lyft but I do not want everything being done by part time, untrained, non-professionals. 

Well you can actually make a full time job out of it, many(some former cabbies) driving for 2 at once and killing iit with volume.

More peolple overall can afford a cheaper fare than would be able to afford a pricey fare. So the pot grows, and most faces stay the same, even if the cab companies themselves see reduced profits.

 

Its only temporary anyways. We're past driving being a purely human affair, but not yet at it being entirely automated.

We will be better off once we automate all we can and get everyone into good fulfilling work. The broad fields of Entertainment/Art, the Sciences and Human Interaction.

[Ten oz]

@Endy0816 there are many expenses involved with using ones own vehicle that Uber and Lyft have been pushing off on their drivers. The issue has been in courts for a couple years now. Also the majority of drivers are earning less than minimum wage and walk away after 6 months.

Quote

 

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Drivers who worked for ride-hailing service Uber [UBER.UL] in California and Massachusetts over the past seven years would have been entitled to an estimated $730 million in expense reimbursements had they been employees rather than contractors, according to court documents made public on Monday. 

Uber and smaller rival Lyft are attempting to settle lawsuits by drivers who contend they should be classified as employees and therefore entitled to reimbursement for expenses, including gasoline and vehicle maintenance. Drivers currently pay those costs themselves.

According to attorneys for Uber drivers, the total potential damages in the case are $852 million, when including a claim to recover tips. The figure is based on rates for mileage reimbursement set by the U.S. government and on data provided by Uber Technologies Inc.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-tech-drivers-lawsuit-idUSKCN0Y02E8

 

Quote

 

At $8.55-$10 per hour, though, that generalization doesn't hold. That's below minimum wage for 41 percent to 54 percent of drivers, Zoepf wrote. Add the absence of any social benefits or worker protections, and the quality of the Uber jobs sinks below the worst permissibly exploitative positions in fast food and retail. These are the kinds of jobs that, in the days before "tech disruption," only the shadow economy used to provide to the most desperate seekers.

One can argue about the exact amount of net profit and the value of flexible hours, but drivers tend to vote with their feet soon after they find out what working for ride-hailing companies is really like. As Hall and collaborators wrote earlier this year, 65 percent of those who start driving are no longer active on the platform six months later. Among women, the six-month attrition rate is 76.5 percent. The U.S. fast food industry's staff turnover rate, averaging 150 percent a year, implies an average attrition period of eight months.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-03-09/uber-driver-wages-are-too-low-to-sustain-the-cab-industry

 

I am not saying I think the govt should crack down on Uber and Lyft. Rather I am just illustrating that they're not careers one can build a life and contribute to society with. The Package Delivery industry  traditionally has been. People working for UPS, USPS, FedEx, and DHL have healthcare, 401Ks, above minimum wage salaries, and are able to buy homes in their communities, pay taxes, and etc. Moving Package delivery into the gig economy akin to Uber and Lyft is a bad idea. The work force would become transient, less professional, and underpaid. 

 

[Endy0816]

The taxicab companies have something of a hiring monopoly and take advantage of their workers.

Quote

I rode with Alvan Narine in Boston the other day. He is an immigrant from Trinidad and came to America thirty-five years ago, when he started driving cabs. Now he owns one at age 71 and drives three 12-hour shifts a week. The other days he rents his cab out to other drivers for $75 to $100 a day. He is responsible for all maintenance and insurance, while the drivers pay for gas.

I asked him what he can make if he has a really good day. His answer was maybe a hundred dollars.

He said a vast majority of drivers are immigrants and need the jobs, so they work like dogs for essentially minimum wage. They can get paid in two different ways: either by a percentage (usually about a third) of the gross fares, or by renting the cab by the day or week and paying all fuel costs.

www.forbes.com/sites/marcwebertobias/2011/11/18/how-taxi-companies-rip-off-their-drivers/

Its basically the same situation for the drivers, UberLyft or Cabbie, but the cab companies are profiting on both ends.

 

With UberLyft you already own the vehicle(vs renting or being lucky enough to buy a taxi) and can do many repairs yourself, saving on those labor costs.

Some cab drivers are considered private contractors as well. With Uber you can more easily earn or rely on benefits from elsewhere. Retiree, college student, someone working Uber for extra income, etc.

 

Take home earnings look to be about even roughly. Factor in taxi upkeep or rental costs, gas, any individual insurance costs and the company's more generous cut.

Monopolies deserve to be broken, that's my philosophy anyways. They do it to themselves. Not like UberLyft came into existance in a vacuum.

[Endy0816]

Should confess I deal with Cabbies and UberLyft daily at work and I am profoundly ill disposed to the setup the cabs have.

They pay $50 per vehicle to park on property, but take up valuable space we could definitely use for guests loading and unloading. I'm friendly with a number but find many cabbies to be arrogant. Like Joe Blow, can't act professional, keep their car clean and follow GPS instructions. Not that taxing.

They have their own taxicab attendant to prevent graft(who is given the passenger) from occuring, but obviously an impartial app could do the same without yet another cost imposed.

 

In contrast UberLyft is a little ray of sunshine. They come in, earnestly trying to show me their drivers license, pickup or drop off folks and are as polite as you could ask for the whole time.

Much more inclined to be positivly disposed to them and the companies.

I normally see the same Uber driver handle 4-5 groups in the same time as a Cab might handle 1. Those numbers suggest they'll just be outcompetted one way or another. Imposing on friends and family because fares are insane is not an alternative I want to go back to. I'm sure cabs will continue to have some kind of niche though.