Neutral elementary particles and electromagnetic waves

[Butch]

Do neutral elementary particles respond to electromagnetic waves?

[studiot]

Yes the photons can transfer momentum.

[swansont]

Depends on the particle. Neutrinos don't. Electrons and quarks do.

[Butch]

1 hour ago, studiot said:

Yes the photons can transfer momentum.

To any particle, are there exceptions?

[Sensei]

1 hour ago, swansont said:

Quote

Neutral elementary particles and electromagnetic waves

Depends on the particle. Neutrinos don't.

Google for "Photon-neutrino scattering"..

Google for "Photon-neutrino scattering site:cern.ch" (to limit just to CERN). 21k articles.

 

[mathematic]

Photons are electromagnetic waves.  They can collide, but otherwise they can interact as waves.

[swansont]

52 minutes ago, Sensei said:

Google for "Photon-neutrino scattering"..

Google for "Photon-neutrino scattering site:cern.ch" (to limit just to CERN). 21k articles.

 

That's an electroweak interaction, not an electromagnetic one.

[Butch]

2 hours ago, swansont said:

That's an electroweak interaction, not an electromagnetic one.

Thx!

[Butch]

16 hours ago, swansont said:

That's an electroweak interaction, not an electromagnetic one.

I am seeking a basic particle in order to establish a basic unit for the math pertaining to my single field. The neutrino would seem a good candidate, however if it does not respond classically to em waves I am lost... unless it responds to gravitational waves. I envision this as occurring as a change in perceived mass of the neutrino. I am familiar with the original thought that the neutrino was massless, followed by the discovery of oscillation which required mass. My thought is that in response to a gravitational wave my particle would perhaps gain and lose mass in quantum amounts, that is its gravity well would oscillate. As far as I know the mass of the neutrino has been elusive... Can you lead me to some research in this area?

Edited June 25, 2018 by Butch

[swansont]

47 minutes ago, Butch said:

I am seeking a basic particle in order to establish a basic unit for the math pertaining to my single field.

No such thing as a "basic" particle in the standard model. Particles interact via the fundamental interactions - electromagnetic, strong and weak, but some do not interact via all of them. The EM and weak unify into a single interaction at a certain energy.

47 minutes ago, Butch said:

The neutrino would seem a good candidate, however if it does not respond classically to em waves I am lost... unless it responds to gravitational waves.

It only interacts via the weak interaction, and gravitationally. Gravitational waves and the gravitational interaction are not the same thing.

 

[Butch]

4 minutes ago, swansont said:

No such thing as a "basic" particle in the standard model. Particles interact via the fundamental interactions - electromagnetic, strong and weak, but some do not interact via all of them. The EM and weak unify into a single interaction at a certain energy.

It only interacts via the weak interaction, and gravitationally. Gravitational waves and the gravitational interaction are not the same thing.

 

Could you elaborate? What exactly happens when a gravitational wave encounters a neutrino...

If you wish to provide a link to more information that would be awesome! My searches seem only to lead to very basic wiki's.

[swansont]

1 hour ago, Butch said:

Could you elaborate? What exactly happens when a gravitational wave encounters a neutrino...

Qualitatively, the space nearby is stretched/compressed by some small amount. I don't know what effect that will have on a point particle. I have no idea how one would describe this mathematically.

[Butch]

1 hour ago, swansont said:

Qualitatively, the space nearby is stretched/compressed by some small amount. I don't know what effect that will have on a point particle. I have no idea how one would describe this mathematically.

Lol, my problem exactly...  Perhaps the gravitational field governs space/time? My thought is that a photon for example (as a wave packet in a gravitational field) distorts the particle well unevenly as the well rebounds it re-emits the absorbed energy as a new photon. A wave front would distort it much differently, I suppose the mass of the particle would not necessarily change, but where is the quantum? Is it the nature of gravity itself?

Thanks, Swansont, once again you have fed the gray matter!

P.S. I assume you meant quantitatively, not qualitatively?

[Markus Hanke]

12 hours ago, Butch said:

Perhaps the gravitational field governs space/time?

The gravitational field is spacetime.

[swansont]

15 hours ago, Butch said:

Lol, my problem exactly...  Perhaps the gravitational field governs space/time? My thought is that a photon for example (as a wave packet in a gravitational field) distorts the particle well unevenly as the well rebounds it re-emits the absorbed energy as a new photon. A wave front would distort it much differently, I suppose the mass of the particle would not necessarily change, but where is the quantum? Is it the nature of gravity itself?

Thanks, Swansont, once again you have fed the gray matter!

We don't have a quantum theory of gravity, so there is no quantum to discuss here. As Markus has said, gravity is spacetime, or more precisely, the curvature of spacetime.

15 hours ago, Butch said:

P.S. I assume you meant quantitatively, not qualitatively?

No, I meant qualitatively. I gave a description. I did not quantify the effect.

[Butch]

14 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

The gravitational field is spacetime.

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...

If gravity can mimic electromagnetism???

[Sensei]

 

10 minutes ago, Butch said:

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...

If gravity can mimic electromagnetism???

Electromagnetism is split to electrostatic forces and magnetic forces. Sometimes they overlap in specific experiment.

Charged particles are creators of electric field around them, and moving charged particles are creators of magnetic field around them.

Unpaired electrons are creators of magnetic field around them.

Particles with mass and energy are creators of gravitational field around them.

Strengths of forces diminish with distance differently! (in curved space/spacetime such diminishing with distance (e.g. inverse square law) would be extremely complicated)

 

There is experiment in which electrostatic forces and gravitational forces overlap. It's oil drop experiment.

 

[Butch]

2 minutes ago, Sensei said:

 

Electromagnetism is split to electrostatic forces and magnetic forces. Sometimes they overlap in specific experiment.

Charged particles are creators of electric field around them, and moving charged particles are creators of magnetic field around them.

Unpaired electrons are creators of magnetic field around them.

Particles with mass and energy are creators of gravitational field around them.

Strengths of forces diminish with distance differently! (in curved space/spacetime such diminishing with distance (e.g. inverse square law) would be extremely complicated)

 

There is experiment in which electrostatic forces and gravitational forces overlap. It's oil drop experiment.

 

Yes, charge escapes me at present, I do have some thoughts however, just not to the discussion point yet.

[Sensei]

7 hours ago, Butch said:

Yes, charge escapes me at present, I do have some thoughts however, just not to the discussion point yet.

Charge of particle is intrinsic essential property..

 

[Markus Hanke]

9 hours ago, Butch said:

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...

It’s more than just that. Gravity is defined as being geodesic deviation, i.e. a geometric property of spacetime. There is no meaningful distinction between the two.

9 hours ago, Butch said:

If gravity can mimic electromagnetism???

Gravity and electromagnetism are completely different - both in terms of their dynamics, and in terms of their underlying mechanism. There are links between the two, but they are nonetheless distinct phenomena.

[Sensei]

38 minutes ago, Markus Hanke said:

Gravity and electromagnetism are completely different - both in terms of their dynamics, and in terms of their underlying mechanism. There are links between the two, but they are nonetheless distinct phenomena.

To measure elementary charge ("e") there are used x-ray photons fired at drop of oil, to ionize it ("eject electron"), between two electrostatically charged pieces of metals..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_drop_experiment

 

[swansont]

15 hours ago, Butch said:

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...

If gravity can mimic electromagnetism???

It doesn't, in some very important and distinct ways.

Gravity is only attractive, and cannot be shielded, to name two. 

[J.C.MacSwell]

On 6/24/2018 at 3:41 PM, Butch said:

Do neutral elementary particles respond to electromagnetic waves?

So...just to be clear...both effect spacetime gravitationally so indirectly respond (as a minimum)?

Is that correct?

[swansont]

7 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

So...just to be clear...both effect spacetime gravitationally so indirectly respond (as a minimum)?

Is that correct?

I took the question to mean via the EM interaction, but yes, everything interacts gravitationally because everything has energy. And the gravitational effect would be exceedingly small at the atomic level. It's small at the planetary level.

[J.C.MacSwell]

1 minute ago, swansont said:

I took the question to mean via the EM interaction, but yes, everything interacts gravitationally because everything has energy. And the gravitational effect would be exceedingly small at the atomic level. It's small at the planetary level.

Thanks