solutions to overpopulation

[Itoero]

What do you think are the best solutions to overpopulation?

I've heard from a friend that education and especially female education can reduce birth rate.

[StringJunky]

A semi-chicxulub event at some random place on the Earth. We don't have the will or the means to determine how it's done and be done fairly, so let chance and nature do it for us.

Edited July 19, 2018 by StringJunky

[Phi for All]

Education is always good if you're looking for smart solutions.

Access to affordable healthcare is also good.

If we took MUCH better care of our environment we could have a lot more people without stressing natural resources or endangering other species. 

If we did all three of these things, I think our population wouldn't get to become a problem until we had perfected offworld colonization technology. That seems like the most rational course for mankind, to me. But we really should learn to respect ourselves and our home more.

[CharonY]

The link between female education and empowerment (legal and otherwise) with reduced birth rates is by now quite firmly established, I believe. Current projections indicate a slowdown of growth with a maximum population of ca. 11 billions by 2100.  I always found that the off-world idea is a bit like a projection of the colonial past to the future. I.e. a time when folks were thinking in forms of continuous (exponential) growth, expansion and consumption.

[Sensei]

3 hours ago, Itoero said:

What do you think are the best solutions to overpopulation?

1) escape from the Earth at rate 300k people per day (quite unrealistic, looking how many people ever traveled to cosmic space so far).

2) anti-conception

3) abortions

4) [...worser than above...]

3 hours ago, Itoero said:

I've heard from a friend that education and especially female education can reduce birth rate.

Did friend say what they should learn? How to protect against having babies in inappropriate moment of their life, and how to control their quantity. It's mostly problem of 2nd and 3rd world, as western countries have exactly reverse problem - there is less newly born child per couple than 2.

China is an example of country, in which they thought, it can be forced by government ("one child per couple"), and they made serious problems instead ("killing of newly born girls and unbalanced gender of entire generation").

 

People escaping the Earth for real in rockets, must be extremely well educated. They will never return back..

People building these rockets ("space stations with at least 300k capacity"?) must be extremely well educated.

So, the entire world population must be extremely well educated in the all areas.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Sensei

[Phi for All]

17 hours ago, Sensei said:

People escaping the Earth for real in rockets, must be extremely well educated. They will never return back..

People building these rockets ("space stations with at least 300k capacity"?) must be extremely well educated.

So, the entire world population must be extremely well educated in the all areas.

I think the entire population should be extremely well educated so we understand how important it is to be Earthlings before colonizing elsewhere. 

[dimreepr]

20 hours ago, Itoero said:

What do you think are the best solutions to overpopulation?

 

I think we should get rid of the middle bit...

[Strange]

17 hours ago, Sensei said:

Did friend say what they should learn? How to protect against having babies in inappropriate moment of their life, and how to control their quantity. It's mostly problem of 2nd and 3rd world, as western countries have exactly reverse problem - there is less newly born child per couple than 2.

The "western" countries have low birth rates BECAUSE of education, which leads to relative increases in health, wealth and good governance. 

20 hours ago, Itoero said:

What do you think are the best solutions to overpopulation?

I've heard from a friend that education and especially female education can reduce birth rate.

Your friend is absolutely correct. But I'm not sure it is problem that needs a solution. The global birth rate has already fallen below the level needed to sustain the current population and so the population will fall. I think it is possible to feed to expected population, but this may require some changes to lifestyle (eating less meat, perhaps). It was pointed out by a Nobel-prize winning economist (whose name escapes me right now ...) that famine is a political problem, not one of agriculture. Which brings us back to the need for an educated population who can ensure that have good, effective, honest(*) governments.

Watch some of Hans Rosling's videos on the changes in health and wealth in "third world" countries, why the population will keep growing for a few decades, etc.

(*) Not completely corrupt, at least.

[CharonY]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

The "western" countries have low birth rates BECAUSE of education, which leads to relative increases in health, wealth and good governance. 

An important element is the accompanied higher participation of women in the workforce and improvement family planning. Data from Canada suggests that higher education increases the likelihood of having children, but reduces number of total children.

[Phi for All]

41 minutes ago, CharonY said:

An important element is the accompanied higher participation of women in the workforce and improvement family planning. Data from Canada suggests that higher education increases the likelihood of having children, but reduces number of total children.

That's very interesting. The increased likelihood of having kids, is it because higher education provides more opportunity for relationships that result in children, and better education usually means better earnings so people can afford children in the first place? 

[CharonY]

The study was using economic models to distinguish between those two effects on overall fertility (i.e. likelihood of having children and number of children). Among the things they found is that schooling increased likelihood of marriage that, so the authors argue, reduce the price of child quality,  (in their model they used children as the equivalent of a commodity of a given quality and quantity). Likewise, a higher income by the woman increases child quantity cost (as caring for children is traditionally done by women and their salary would be lost). Together, they argue a higher educational attainment reduces overall child quantity.

[Itoero]

On ‎19‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 10:15 PM, CharonY said:

he link between female education and empowerment (legal and otherwise) with reduced birth rates is by now quite firmly established, I believe

That's very true, islam is probably a good example. Globally Muslims have the highest birth rate and islam is known to have a messed up woman emancipation….which causes a problem in female education.

This means that overpopulation goes along with a rise in religion and lack in woman emancipation. I think it's necessary to do something about this.

Also, the overpopulation and rise in religion implies more wars/terrorism. Especially with the effects of global warming.

More people need also more food and water. There is already a waterproblem.          I think it were people from the University of Gent (Belgium) that created an efficient way to purify seawater . They created a technology that uses blue energy to reduce the energy necessary to push water through a saltselective membrane. Then it's cheaper to purify seawater.

4 hours ago, CharonY said:

An important element is the accompanied higher participation of women in the workforce and improvement family planning. Data from Canada suggests that higher education increases the likelihood of having children, but reduces number of total children.

Interesting. The age of Childbirth and reduced birth rate  do increase the risk  of breastcancer. My sister said this and she's correct...I checked it.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Itoero

[CharonY]

6 minutes ago, Itoero said:

That's very true, islam is probably a good example. Globally Muslims have the highest birth rate and islam is known to have a messed up woman emancipation….which causes a problem in female education.

That is a stretch. The biggest factor is economy and closely associated with it, education. Religion does play a subordinate role. Birth rates are dropping quite fast in most Muslim countries and the rate in the last 20 years was much faster than the comparable drop in Western Christian countries. It is also a bit ignorant to state that women have lower education throughout the Muslim world. There a immense regional differences. While (and despite) there is still discrimination going on, in many MENA countries there are more women in higher education than men. Likewise, while the average birth rate is still higher in the West on average, some countries (such as Iran) are lower than many Western countries. The situation is certainly not ideal in terms of equality. But it is much more complex than what you allude to. 

 

17 minutes ago, Itoero said:

Interesting. The age of Childbirth and reduced birth rate  do increase the risk  of breastcancer. My sister said this and she's correct...I checked it.

Just as a remark, while there is indeed this connection, it is usually better to indicate where the information was derived from. My sister or I checked may make it difficult to assess veracity. It is better to refer to some info that allows interested reader to follow up. E.g. a Norwegian study from 2005 which provided probably the strongest evidence at that time (Albrektsen et al. BJC 2005).

[Strange]

10 minutes ago, CharonY said:

It is also a bit ignorant to state that women have lower education throughout the Muslim world. There a immense regional differences.

When I worked in a university (in the UK) 100% of the female engineering students were from overseas and nearly all of them from Islamic countries.

[CharonY]

Just now, Strange said:

When I worked in a university (in the UK) 100% of the female engineering students were from overseas and nearly all of them from Islamic countries.

Not quite that high rate, but in class I often have quite a few rather obviously (from their clothing) Muslim female students. While I assume that there is a selection bias of those studying overseas, I found them not to conform to any common stereotypes (one of the things I like with getting contact from students all over the world- it rather frequently challenges what one assumes to know about certain areas).

[Itoero]

20 hours ago, CharonY said:

That is a stretch. The biggest factor is economy and closely associated with it, education. Religion does play a subordinate role. Birth rates are dropping quite fast in most Muslim countries and the rate in the last 20 years was much faster than the comparable drop in Western Christian countries. It is also a bit ignorant to state that women have lower education throughout the Muslim world. There a immense regional differences. While (and despite) there is still discrimination going on, in many MENA countries there are more women in higher education than men. Likewise, while the average birth rate is still higher in the West on average, some countries (such as Iran) are lower than many Western countries. The situation is certainly not ideal in terms of equality. But it is much more complex than what you allude to. 

I did not say all women have lower education in Muslim world, there are of course regional differences.  If, according to you, Birth rates drop faster in Muslim countries then in western  Christian countries then how do you explain many study's show Islam will become biggest religion due to birth rate? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/05/muslim-population-overtake-christian-birthrate-20-years  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth

Also economy and education are often causal related to Islam.

[CharonY]

4 hours ago, Itoero said:

I did not say all women have lower education in Muslim world, there are of course regional differences.  If, according to you, Birth rates drop faster in Muslim countries then in western  Christian countries then how do you explain many study's show Islam will become biggest religion due to birth rate?

Fairly easily. I mentioned the drop rate. I.e. say the time it took to reduce a children size from 6 to below 3. In many Muslim countries it took about 20-27 years. In the UK and USA it took 80-90 years. The difference is that in the latter case it happened earlier. If we factor in other parameters it becomes quite obvious that economic factors were the main drivers and those happened later, but much faster in most Muslim countries.

Quote

Also economy and education are often causal related to Islam.

Any evidence for that? Why is educational attainment for women so different in the various Muslim countries, if the religion is the main factor? 

[nihilist scientist]

Hello, I live in Muslim country and i have to say something about that. Actually, in educated side of our country, people are informed about birth control methods . However, in uneducated side , it is beyond women's power. Womens doesn't have right to speak, so that all control is belonged to men. Our goverment is handing out preservatives to prevent this problem , but I think nobody use them. Even,a few years ago, I heard some news about that. Some kids were using preservatives like balloon.  On the other hand, even if they were educated, probably they don't do something. They aims to having much kids, they use them like soliders. they protect themselves and make money through their kids. Nobody doesn't care life standards of kids, especially girls.  These people do that to live. Goverment, police or any defensive force can't prevent them, because they are not enough to stop hunger , terror and unemployment.

In my opinion, education can be part of the solution , but this is not enough. It is releated with economy and politic situation of country. Solution is being social democracy. 

As for me, this is not about religion. In our country, nobody against abortion, it is totally about management.

Edited July 21, 2018 by nihilist scientist

[CharonY]

Makes sense. One thing of note is that improvement in education generally go hand in hand with economic improvement (in fact the education level tend to lag economic improvements). While reduction in children number with higher education has been observed in high as well as in low-economy areas, in the latter the economy adds additional pressures that are absent (or different) in the former. 

[Itoero]

15 hours ago, CharonY said:

Quote

 

Any evidence for that? Why is educational attainment for women so different in the various Mthe religion is the main factor? 

Education in Islam is a concept based on verses of the Quran as well as hadiths that emphasize the positive benefits to be gained from the acquisition of knowledge. And someone's education decides often it's role in an economy and it forms the economy.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Islam   I suppose it's different for higher education.

Regional differences exist because politics/economy can evolve regardless of religion.

 

 

[CharonY]

41 minutes ago, Itoero said:

Regional differences exist because politics/economy can evolve regardless of religion.

That is precisely my point. and the counterpoint to this:

 

On 7/20/2018 at 2:10 PM, Itoero said:

Globally Muslims have the highest birth rate and islam is known to have a messed up woman emancipation….which causes a problem in female education.

This means that overpopulation goes along with a rise in religion and lack in woman emancipation. I think it's necessary to do something about this.

 

[Itoero]

Ok, but  I don't talk in absolutes.

"Globally Muslims have the highest birth rate "= On average Muslims have highest birth rate.

" islam is known to have a messed up woman emancipation….which causes a problem in female education" = Many Muslim women are not equal to meen (veil). This inequallity causes that many women have low education.

"This means that overpopulation goes along with a rise in religion" : Do you deny this?

[dimreepr]

26 minutes ago, Itoero said:

Ok, but  I don't talk in absolutes.

 

Really?

26 minutes ago, Itoero said:

"Globally Muslims have the highest birth rate "= On average Muslims have highest birth rate.

" islam is known to have a messed up woman emancipation….which causes a problem in female education" = Many Muslim women are not equal to meen (veil). This inequallity causes that many women have low education.

"This means that overpopulation goes along with a rise in religion" 

4

Now, that's funny...

Edited July 22, 2018 by dimreepr

[Strange]

22 minutes ago, Itoero said:

Ok, but  I don't talk in absolutes.

Except, of course, you do. 

[Phi for All]

32 minutes ago, Itoero said:

Ok, but  I don't talk in absolutes.

After this statement blew up my active irony meter, I found my spare, switched off and in a drawer downstairs, with a crack in the faceplate.