The creative impulse

[geordief]

I am wondering if anyone here has an opinion as to whether such a thing  as "the creative impulse" could be rigorously defined.

 

 Is a third party (the first two parties being the creator of the object and the object itself) essential to the process ?

 

My own view  is that the meaning of the term cannot be tied down but I also  wonder can anything at all integral to  the process be stated with a degree of certainty...

 

Is there anything about a creative  act or thought that definitively sets it apart from other such actions or thoughts? 

[Phi for All]

5 hours ago, geordief said:

I am wondering if anyone here has an opinion as to whether such a thing  as "the creative impulse" could be rigorously defined.

The more rigorous a definition is, the less it usually applies to. Don't you need a definition broad enough to encompass what most would call "creative"?

To me, being creative can be as simple as putting things together in a way you never have before. 

5 hours ago, geordief said:

 Is a third party (the first two parties being the creator of the object and the object itself) essential to the process ?

Only if you're talking about art, and even then I don't consider an observer essential. 

5 hours ago, geordief said:

Is there anything about a creative  act or thought that definitively sets it apart from other such actions or thoughts? 

Much of what we do in life is about following familiar patterns to get what we want. We know the formulas for many mundane acts, and we know exactly what should happen when we invoke them. To me, creativity is an attempt to change the pattern without knowing what the outcome will be. It's like stepping off the road to investigate a narrow path. It might end up being a shorter route, it might lead to a dead end, or it just might lead to the most beautiful place you've ever been.

[geordief]

16 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

The more rigorous a definition is, the less it usually applies to. Don't you need a definition broad enough to encompass what most would call "creative"?

So "descriptions rather than definition ? There is no such "thing" ;more a confluence of behaviours?

16 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

To me, being creative can be as simple as putting things together in a way you never have before. 

I would say so

16 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Only if you're talking about art, and even then I don't consider an observer essential. 

I would actually,even if only in concept.

16 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Much of what we do in life is about following familiar patterns to get what we want. We know the formulas for many mundane acts, and we know exactly what should happen when we invoke them. To me, creativity is an attempt to change the pattern without knowing what the outcome will be. It's like stepping off the road to investigate a narrow path. It might end up being a shorter route, it might lead to a dead end, or it just might lead to the most beautiful place you've ever been.

Is playfulness essential to the behaviour? It is very fundamental to how we are and how we develop.

Animals play too,of course.

[Phi for All]

30 minutes ago, geordief said:

So "descriptions rather than definition ? There is no such "thing" ;more a confluence of behaviours?

It was the "rigorously defined" part I was questioning. To me, that means blocking out exactly what is and isn't creative. I think you can simply define creativity, and then be rigorous in applying that definition.

32 minutes ago, geordief said:

I would actually,even if only in concept.

So if I do something artistically creative only for my own enjoyment, it's not art until somebody else sees it? 

35 minutes ago, geordief said:

Is playfulness essential to the behaviour? It is very fundamental to how we are and how we develop.

Animals play too,of course.

Define playfulness. Aren't you just describing a mindset that's having fun changing a typical pattern? I think creativity is fun, it's expressive, it feels brand new because you're doing something differently, something outside the normal pattern of things you're used to doing. 

The creative impulse emerges from our thinking processes rather than resulting from stimuli. It seems to be part of our consciousness.

[ALine]

A creative impulse is just the beginning stages of developing an idea which has it's basis in a desire or want to perform a certain action or basically do anything that the individual can imagine. I would not say that it is an "impulse" more like that impulse is just the desire to create something new which leads to the development of an idea. Like say you like making things then you have a desire to make something new, this desire can also be like if you want to have sexual relations with someone else, you have the desire to do it and then you have the idea to do it. Ideas derived from desires and desires derive from ideas. Best response I can think of.

[Bender]

4 hours ago, geordief said:

Is playfulness essential to the behaviour?

No.

You can be creative even if you know exactly what you are going to create and while knowing exactly how it will turn out.

Working out a math problem can require creativity, eg, while I have noticed not everyone experiences math problems as playful.

Or when I design a new machine, I (regularly) know the concept will work before I even make any drawings.

4 hours ago, ALine said:

A creative impulse is just the beginning stages of developing an idea which has it's basis in a desire or want to perform a certain action or basically do anything that the individual can imagine. I would not say that it is an "impulse" more like that impulse is just the desire to create something new which leads to the development of an idea. Like say you like making things then you have a desire to make something new, this desire can also be like if you want to have sexual relations with someone else, you have the desire to do it and then you have the idea to do it. Ideas derived from desires and desires derive from ideas. Best response I can think of.

Perhaps if you interpret "desire" very broadly to include eg a boss or a teacher requiring you to make something.

[Sensei]

7 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Only if you're talking about art, and even then I don't consider an observer essential. 

Programmers all the time are inspired by other programmer's work. They see what somebody did, and think "I could do it better! It needs to be fixed here, there, and there... (list grows very quickly)".. Some of them even end up remaking 3rd party product, just to include what they noticed was missing in primary product.

While making product/program/game, programmers are enlighten, and start noticing things they forgot to include in their initial version. Sometimes this leads to complete rewrite of program, to include new features, and make product even better for customers.

e.g. Windows explorer copy files function. When it finds out file is already present in destination folder, it shows up requester asking what do it. Fine if you're copying just couple files. And have to click 1-3 times in requester what to do. But what if there is thousands or millions of files with the same names (but with different dates, different size and content) and with GB sizes.. ? It is damn annoying. User can't simply go for tea/coffee, and has to be there while copying and clicking it over and over again.. When requester is showed entire copying is stopped, increasing time of copying while human is reading what requester showed. Programmer's immediate thoughts (at least my) 1) why they didn't give option to continue copying in background (asynchronous, multi-threading) while requester is open and waiting for user action 2) why it doesn't compare byte-by-byte files to check they're binary the same file (or compare checksum of files) 3) why it doesn't queue similar requests in the list to batch process them at the end... 4) why there is no option "replace if newer date"? etc. etc. So basic functionality of any operating system and it's so inspiring for improvements..

Aren't you inspired/annoyed while working with computer programs which don't work the way you would like.. ?

I assume artist also have "creative inspirational impulse" while watching some other artist work.. i.e. "I could do it better!"

Edited July 24, 2018 by Sensei

[Bender]

7 hours ago, Sensei said:

e.g. Windows explorer copy files function. When it finds out file is already present in destination folder, it shows up requester asking what do it. Fine if you're copying just couple files. And have to click 1-3 times in requester what to do. But what if there is thousands or millions of files with the same names (but with different dates, different size and content) and with GB sizes.. ? It is damn annoying. User can't simply go for tea/coffee, and has to be there while copying and clicking it over and over again.. When requester is showed entire copying is stopped, increasing time of copying while human is reading what requester showed. Programmer's immediate thoughts (at least my) 1) why they didn't give option to continue copying in background (asynchronous, multi-threading) while requester is open and waiting for user action 2) why it doesn't compare byte-by-byte files to check they're binary the same file (or compare checksum of files) 3) why it doesn't queue similar requests in the list to batch process them at the end... 4) why there is no option "replace if newer date"? etc. etc.

You must be using an older version. My Windows Explorer does that now. I guess occasionally Microsoft does something right...

[Phi for All]

14 hours ago, Sensei said:

Programmers all the time are inspired by other programmer's work.

My comment was about whether a third party is essential to the creative process. Of course you can gain inspiration from others. But if you were alone on a deserted island, I'm guessing you could get pretty creative all by yourself.

[geordief]

 

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

My comment was about whether a third party is essential to the creative process. Of course you can gain inspiration from others. But if you were alone on a deserted island, I'm guessing you could get pretty creative all by yourself.

 

[Sensei]

57 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

My comment was about whether a third party is essential to the creative process. Of course you can gain inspiration from others. But if you were alone on a deserted island, I'm guessing you could get pretty creative all by yourself.

You would have to born in black box, completely void, without any signals coming from environment, to exclude external influences on inspiration.

Somebody living alone on island is inspired all the time (simply not by other living human, but by environment and past experiences and knowledge gained prior arrival to island): birds are showing where are shoal of fish, coldness at night is inspiring to make fire, illness after drinking seawater is inspiring to find fresh water... etc. etc. Somebody who saw survival documents in TV will be inspired by them.

You (or OP) made assumption that inspiration must come from other human. But it's not necessary. Other living organisms, or inorganic objects, can also being inspiring.

[geordief]

I 

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

My comment was about whether a third party is essential to the creative process. Of course you can gain inspiration from others. But if you were alone on a deserted island, I'm guessing you could get pretty creative all by yourself.

I think the (artistic) creative process would wither for lack of external stimulation (and the feedback process)

 

It may not be a conscious action but  I feel that that kind of creativity depends on a relationship with the individual's milieu ,as well as his or her own appreciation of his or her own  navigation in those waters.

Otherwise it is robotic and sterile.

.I used to believe in "art for art's sake" but no longer do. It is all "performance art " at one remove or another.

 

(Still thinking about "playfulness".I didn't realize this was such a Pandora's box)

[Phi for All]

1 minute ago, Sensei said:

You would have to born in black box, completely void, without any signals coming from environment, to exclude external influences on inspiration.

Somebody living alone on island is inspired all the time (simply not by other living human, but by environment and past experiences and knowledge gained prior arrival to island): birds are showing where are shoal of fish, coldness at night is inspiring to make fire, illness after drinking seawater is inspiring to find fresh water... etc. etc. Somebody who saw survival documents in TV will be inspired by them.

You (or OP) made assumption that inspiration must come from other human. But it's not necessary. Other living organisms, or inorganic objects, can also being inspiring.

Ah, so a person can't create art on their own because of their experiences. They automatically create art for an observer because they learned everything from something else? Is this what you're saying? 

[Sensei]

Some individuals can create art for them self. They're the only user, the only "observer" of what they did. I am example of such person, as majority of my programs were never released to public, and I am the only user. It does not mean they're made slapdash (at least I try not to do it).

But majority of artists are making art for other people. Without appreciation, audience, critique, they would not able to work anymore.

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Sensei

[Phi for All]

3 minutes ago, Sensei said:

But majority of artists are making art for other people. Without appreciation, audience, critique, they would not able to work anymore.

OK, so the majority. My objection was to the word "essential", which means art CAN'T happen without an observer. Do you agree with my objection? Was I THAT unclear about what I meant?

[fieldunificationman]

Given, there are times we are creative in isolation. What is creativity, but a move to inspire the self and hopefully others? A moment of vision to share for others to see or hear or experience while reaching to understand ourselves

Edited August 7, 2018 by fieldunificationman

[Brett Nortj]

17 hours ago, fieldunificationman said:

Given, there are times we are creative in isolation. What is creativity, but a move to inspire the self and hopefully others? A moment of vision to share for others to see or hear or experience while reaching to understand ourselves

~ Hello, I like your name, i too believe that each science compliments the other, like obviously physics into chemistry, and that into medicine, and, that into biology,and that into psychology, and that into humanities, if you will. You can also reverse the links, of course.

If you are exposed to something, then you can draw from that source to fathom why it is the way it is, then how it relates to other things, then, through harnessing the wild thoughts inside of us, where we have our own unique perspectives, we logically put together new angles, yes? This breeds new creativity, ideas, notions...