Ecologists try to speed up evolution to save Australian marsupial from toxic toads

[Itoero]

On an island off Australia’s north-central coast, researchers are conducting an unprecedented experiment: mixing endangered animals that have evolved genetic defences against their biggest foe with those that haven’t, in the hope that their offspring will take after the wiser parent.

The subject of the experiment is one of Australia’s most imperilled marsupials, the northern quoll (Dasyurus hallucatus). This squirrel-sized carnivore is struggling to survive a decades-long onslaught of poisonous and invasive cane toads, which quolls mistake as prey, with devastating results.

In the 80 years since agriculture officials introduced the cane toad (Rhinella marina) to northeastern Australia to control a sugar cane-devouring beetle, the amphibians have spread across the state of Queensland, the Northern Territory and large chunks of Western Australia.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05757-y

 

[swansont]

I guess we're re-branding selective breeding as "speeding up evolution"

[Itoero]

3 minutes ago, swansont said:

I guess we're re-branding selective breeding as "speeding up evolution"

Yes, "speeding up evolution" doesn't make much sense. I am very curious if they will succeed.

[zapatos]

Over time with Natural Selection I would expect the northern quoll population with limited genetic defenses to decrease, while the northern quoll population with abundant genetic defenses would increase.

I would expect the same results using Artificial Selection (a.k.a selective breeding), albeit on a faster time scale.

Why is it unreasonable to refer to Artificial Selection as "speeding up evolution"?

 

Quote

Selective breeding (also called artificial selection) is the process by which humans use animal breeding and plant breeding to selectively develop particular phenotypic traits (characteristics) by choosing which typically animal or plant males and females will sexually reproduce and have offspring together. Domesticated animals are known as breeds, normally bred by a professional breeder, while domesticated plants are known as varieties, cultigens, or cultivars. Two purebred animals of different breeds produce a crossbreed, and crossbred plants are called hybrids. Flowers, vegetables and fruit-trees may be bred by amateurs and commercial or non-commercial professionals: major crops are usually the provenance of the professionals.

In animal breeding, techniques such as inbreeding, linebreeding, and outcrossing are utilized. In plant breeding, similar methods are used. Charles Darwin discussed how selective breeding had been successful in producing change over time in his 1859 book, On the Origin of Species. Its first chapter discusses selective breeding and domestication of such animals as pigeons, cats, cattle, and dogs. Darwin used artificial selection as a springboard to introduce and support the theory of natural selection.^[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_breeding

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, Itoero said:

Yes, "speeding up evolution" doesn't make much sense. I am very curious if they will succeed.

Because evolution isn't a thing, it's akin to asking, can we speed up life.

 

14 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Why is it unreasonable to refer to Artificial Selection as "speeding up evolution"?

Sorry Itoero, my mistake, this was the post my reply was intended for. 

Edited July 24, 2018 by dimreepr

[Strange]

17 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Because evolution isn't a thing

Really?

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

Really?

Not a thing one can impart a force on.

[DrP]

5 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Not a thing one can impart a force on.

Meh - just semantics no?

[dimreepr]

Just now, DrP said:

Meh - just semantics no?

No, you can try "selective breeding" etc... but it's like throwing air.

[Strange]

15 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Not a thing one can impart a force on.

No one suggested applying a force to it.

4 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

No, you can try "selective breeding" etc... but it's like throwing air.

Selective breeding is, potentially, different.

There purpose here is, as zapatos said, to make what would happen through natural selection (which could include extinction, I suppose) happen faster (*). Selective breeding can also be used to produce results that would never happen through natural selection (ie not speeding up evolution).

(*) In my dialect of English, making something "happen faster" is also known as "speeding it up".

Edited July 24, 2018 by Strange

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

No suggested applying a force to it.

How else does one speed things up?

[DrP]

2 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

No, you can try "selective breeding" etc... but it's like throwing air.

If I put air in a balloon and throw it off a bridge have I 'thrown air'?...  again - I think it's just semantics.

 

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

No suggested applying a force to it.

Again - semantics   -  by driving evolution in a different direction to it's natural course you could describe it as 'applying a force' to it, no? Not a literal physical force on an actual physical solid body, obviously...   but figuratively maybe?   Semantics.

[Strange]

Just now, dimreepr said:

How else does one speed things up?

Have you ever come across the concept of a "metaphor"?

Have you not seen claims that children are growing up faster, or the speed of social change is increasing? What "force" do you think is being applied in those cases?

Again: really? 

Or have I missed something? Is it Literal Week on science forums this week?

[DrP]

 

2 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

How else does one speed things up?

by taking a short cut?  Semantics.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, DrP said:

If I put air in a balloon and throw it off a bridge have I 'thrown air'?...  again - I think it's just semantics.

 

Did you speed it up or create faster air elsewhere?

[Strange]

1 minute ago, DrP said:

I think it's just semantics.

While we are being annoyingly literal ...

I have few language peeves but: Of course it is semantics! All (meaningful) words and sentences are "just semantics". Without semantics they wouldn't mean anything.

 

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

Have you not seen claims that children are growing up faster, or the speed of social change is increasing? What "force" do you think is being applied in those cases?

My point is, no-one can decide how evolution will ultimately evolve; it's like throwing air, some of the molecules will be faster in the short term but ultimately those left behind may evolve into a hurricane.

[swansont]

50 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Over time with Natural Selection I would expect the northern quoll population with limited genetic defenses to decrease, while the northern quoll population with abundant genetic defenses would increase.

I would expect the same results using Artificial Selection (a.k.a selective breeding), albeit on a faster time scale.

Why is it unreasonable to refer to Artificial Selection as "speeding up evolution"?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_breeding

My point was we already have descriptive terminology in place: selective breeding.

 

[Strange]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

My point is, no-one can decide how evolution will ultimately evolve; it's like throwing air, some of the molecules will be faster in the short term but ultimately those left behind may evolve into a hurricane.

True (ish), but by intervening hopefully they can improve the chances of one outcome (survival) against the other, and bring it about faster (like, you know, “speeding up”). 

[druS]

We seem to have forgotten about the quoll. I've never sighted one in the bush (not for want of looking in areas they are meant to exist) and wish the researchers all the best in their endeavours.