Does the scientific community treat materialism/physicalism as absolute truth?

[DrP]

18 minutes ago, Mallic said:

 But I've yet to meet an atheist that was one because of genuine disbelief,

Here you go. Nice to meet you.

Edited July 26, 2018 by DrP

[Mallic]

1 minute ago, DrP said:

Here you go. Nice to meet you.

Well someone has a high opinion of himself.....just because your pride is hurt doesn't mean I'm not reading your stuff. Also didn't you just say you were gonna stop replying?

In all seriousness I never considered myself a christian, in fact if you look at my OP i explicitly stated that i never considered myself a part of any of the abrehemic religions. Rather i take much of my beliefs from many eastern religions and adopt them into my own world view. Honestly it's a very important thing to clarify. Are you an atheist because you deny christianity? Or do you deny ALL religions? Like paganism, hinduism all that? Or do you just lump them all into one basket and consider them all the same? These are very important things that must be clarified.

[swansont]

1 hour ago, Mallic said:

Ok let me break this down. 

This 2 atoms thing, mostly come from people who wanna try and discredit religious people.

Anyone saying the big bang was cause by two atoms colliding can be dismissed as not having a clue as to what they are talking about.

1 hour ago, Mallic said:

and I'm not discrediting anything else being sentient. That's like me saying animals like dogs and what not aren't sentient. That would be foolish. Why would i be surprised if another creatrures ended up being capable of speech? I shouldn't

And you seem to assume that my belief is limited to only humans which again isn't the case. I'm talking in regards to all living sentient creatures. Be they Humans, Animals, or creatures we have even yet to see. I know i'm terrible at explaining stuff, but my thinking isn't as one dimensional as you seem to think it is.

I can only go by what you say. In this case "us just happening to be sentient" which implies humans.

But for a long arc in the earth's history, there were no sentient beings. We may be the first, perhaps not. There's nothing that pre-ordained this result.

Some things that happen are random, but not all results are random. Any argument that starts with the notion that there is some probabilistic equation that gives a meaningful result about humans coming about at the end is fatally flawed.

 

 

[Mallic]

2 minutes ago, swansont said:

Anyone saying the big bang was cause by two atoms colliding can be dismissed as not having a clue as to what they are talking about.

I can only go by what you say. In this case "us just happening to be sentient" which implies humans.

But for a long arc in the earth's history, there were no sentient beings. We may be the first, perhaps not. There's nothing that pre-ordained this result.

Some things that happen are random, but not all results are random. Any argument that starts with the notion that there is some probabilistic equation that gives a meaningful result about humans coming about at the end is fatally flawed.

 

 

Yeesh do you go through everything with this much of a fine tooth comb? I didn't think i needed to clarify that I'm revering to all living creatures.

[Moontanman]

47 minutes ago, Mallic said:

Stop trying to be subtle about your mockery you aren't very good at it. Also Never think i am ever discrediting science, I'm a technology nerd for crying out loud. Like strange said most religions are accepting of sciences advancements, but i just cant see how someone can justify that we are just glorified fleshy robots. How someone can say everything i think and feel are nothing more then impulses and delusions. I mean For example: I can't imagine any situation where say, Cheating on your wife and then telling her that it was caused by a chemical reaction in your brain, would have her be like "Oh ok"

I've never suggested anything of the sort but you have to stop being so disingenuous,  

Quote

everything i think and feel are nothing more then impulses and delusions

No they are emergent properties of your brain, why is this so difficult for you if you are not just running around screaming you can't catch me to an empty stadium? 

[swansont]

Just now, Mallic said:

Yeesh do you go through everything with this much of a fine tooth comb? I didn't think i needed to clarify that I'm revering to all living creatures.

Yes.  Precision matters (which is why a lot of discussions are mathematical, because language is often imprecise). Welcome to science.

[Strange]

2 minutes ago, Mallic said:

Yeesh do you go through everything with this much of a fine tooth comb?

Scientists, eh. Always concerned about the details!

[Mallic]

Just now, swansont said:

Yes.  Precision matters (which is why a lot of discussions are mathematical, because language is often imprecise). Welcome to science.

Ugh...me and math never got along. Once I realized algebra was basically glorified division, i kinda just stopped caring about it unless i needed to.

[Moontanman]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

Scientists, eh. Always concerned about the details!

Exactly and stupid people always trying to ignore the details they don't like, I think i feel a thread closure coming, how about you? 

2 minutes ago, Mallic said:

Ugh...me and math never got along. Once I realized algebra was basically glorified division, i kinda just stopped caring about it unless i needed to.

well then that explains quite a bit... 

[Mallic]

Just now, Moontanman said:

Exactly and stupid people always trying to ignore the details they don't like, I think i feel a thread closure coming, how about you? 

Oh im so sorry for not blindly listening to everything you have to say oh wise one.
Please enlighten me with your superior intelligence as I'm too much of an ignorant fool to do anything myself

"Bows"

[Moontanman]

1 minute ago, Mallic said:

Oh im so sorry for not blindly listening to everything you have to say oh wise one.
Please enlighten me with your superior intelligence as I'm too much of an ignorant fool to do anything myself

"Bows"

Thank you, thank you very much I'll be here all night... BTW, this is the first honest thing you've said... 

[DrP]

12 minutes ago, Mallic said:

Well someone has a high opinion of himself.....

I try to deal with facts rather than opinions  -  thus my conversion to non belief in the supernatural.

12 minutes ago, Mallic said:

Honestly it's a very important thing to clarify. Are you an atheist because you deny christianity? Or do you deny ALL religions? Like paganism, hinduism all that? Or do you just lump them all into one basket and consider them all the same? These are very important things that must be clarified.

Well take a guess.      I am hardly going to convert from Christianity to any other world religion am I? Show me any evidence for any of them and you will probably have any number of people here point out where you have mistaken that evidence for being credible.  My disbelief is based on the lack of any credible evidence for gods, ghosts and the supernatural in general. I can't explain some things....   but that doesn't mean their is an invisible world around us with angels and gods paying attention to what is going on.

 

And you are right - I did say I wasn't going to reply any more, but you asked me a question.

Just now, Mallic said:

Oh im so sorry for not blindly listening to everything you have to say oh wise one.
Please enlighten me with your superior intelligence as I'm too much of an ignorant fool to do anything myself

"Bows"

You are on a science site asking questions to scientists about science...  His superior knowledge of the sciences isn't proof of higher intelligence.  How did you think this conversation would go?

[Moontanman]

18 minutes ago, Mallic said:

Well someone has a high opinion of himself.....just because your pride is hurt doesn't mean I'm not reading your stuff. Also didn't you just say you were gonna stop replying?

In all seriousness I never considered myself a christian, in fact if you look at my OP i explicitly stated that i never considered myself a part of any of the abrehemic religions. Rather i take much of my beliefs from many eastern religions and adopt them into my own world view. Honestly it's a very important thing to clarify. Are you an atheist because you deny christianity? Or do you deny ALL religions? Like paganism, hinduism all that? Or do you just lump them all into one basket and consider them all the same? These are very important things that must be clarified.

I deny everything supernatural, if that includes your ideas then so be it... 

[Mallic]

Just now, DrP said:

I try to deal with facts rather than opinions  -  thus my conversion to non belief in the supernatural.

Well take a guess.      I am hardly going to convert from Christianity to any other world religion am I? Show me any evidence for any of them and you will probably have any number of people here point out where you have mistaken that evidence for being credible.  My disbelief is based on the lack of any credible evidence for gods, ghosts and the supernatural in general. I can't explain some things....   but that doesn't mean their is an invisible world around us with angels and gods paying attention to what is going on.

 

And you are right - I did say I wasn't going to reply any more, but you asked me a question.

You are on a science site asking questions to scientists about science...  His superior knowledge of the sciences isn't proof of higher intelligence.  How did you think this conversation would go?

I figured I would at least stroke his ego a little since he thinks his opinion is so much more valuable over yours and everyone else's.

[ALine]

The scientific ideology is generally design to filter ideas from being based upon either reality or imagination. Things based in reality are observed being repeatable and things based in imagination are considered to be non-repeatable. 

[nevim]

56 minutes ago, Mallic said:

I'm not even in my 30's yet. You might be thinking "What?! You are way too young to be thinking about death!" Nononononon. I came to the realization that the specter of death can come for us at anytime. It almost claimed my brother and everyone says the fact that he's alive is a miracle.

I’m in my forties and still have insomnia (now just habit) that stems from 5 years of age due to fear of death. Trying to get your head around the self not existing anymore ever again was too much to bear and I struggled with life because of this. 

At some point I was able to control  my thoughts from this slippery slope and it’s not a problem these days. I hope the same will happen for you.

in Buddhism there’s a saying; ‘If you can do something about it, you don’t need to worry. If you can’t do something about it, you don’t need to worry ‘.

Simple but true.

And anyway - there’s always hope

53 minutes ago, Mallic said:

Well someone has a high opinion of himself.....just because your pride is hurt doesn't mean I'm not reading your stuff. Also didn't you just say you were gonna stop replying?

Rather i take much of my beliefs from many eastern religions and adopt them into my own world view. Honestly it's a very important thing to clarify. Are you an atheist because you deny christianity? Or do you deny ALL religions? Like paganism, hinduism all that? Or do you just lump them all into one basket and consider them all the same? These are very important things that must be clarified.

Why must this be clarified? My feeling is that most people don’t need to label or call themselves an atheist. Rather they are just indifferent to religion as it simply doesn’t concern them. At least, that’s how I see it anyway.

Edited July 26, 2018 by nevim

[Strange]

11 minutes ago, nevim said:

in Buddhism there’s a saying; ‘If you can do something about it, you don’t need to worry. If you can’t do something about it, you don’t need to worry ‘.

In the movie Bridge of Spies, Mark Rylance's character, Rudolf Abel, is repeatedly asked things like, "Aren't you scared?" to which he always replies, "Would it help?"

[nevim]

3 minutes ago, Strange said:

In the movie Bridge of Spies, Mark Rylance's character, Rudolf Abel, is repeatedly asked things like, "Aren't you scared?" to which he always replies, "Would it help?"

I love that!

[dimreepr]

12 minutes ago, Strange said:

In the movie Bridge of Spies, Mark Rylance's character, Rudolf Abel, is repeatedly asked things like, "Aren't you scared?" to which he always replies, "Would it help?"

Sometimes it does.

29 minutes ago, nevim said:

in Buddhism there’s a saying; ‘If you can do something about it, you don’t need to worry. If you can’t do something about it, you don’t need to worry ‘.

Worry can sometimes winkle out a solution, IOW worry has its place.

[MathGeek]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

In the movie Bridge of Spies, Mark Rylance's character, Rudolf Abel, is repeatedly asked things like, "Aren't you scared?" to which he always replies, "Would it help?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_Fear

Fear can be useful.  Fear of evil.  Fear of evildoers.  Fear of the police when tempted to do wrong.  Fear of injury when tempted to do dangerous things.  Fear of God?  Well, that's outside the sphere of science.

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, MathGeek said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_Fear

Fear can be useful.  Fear of evil.  Fear of evildoers.  Fear of the police when tempted to do wrong.  Fear of injury when tempted to do dangerous things.  Fear of God?  Well, that's outside the sphere of science.

Science can perhaps tell us how much fear is useful and when it becomes destructive. 

[nevim]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Sometimes it does.

Worry can sometimes winkle out a solution, IOW worry has its place.

It does for sure. But for the times when it’s just destroying your brain,  it’s better not to.

26 minutes ago, MathGeek said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_Fear

Fear can be useful.  Fear of evil.  Fear of evildoers.  Fear of the police when tempted to do wrong.  Fear of injury when tempted to do dangerous things.  Fear of God?  Well, that's outside the sphere of science.

Fear is useful, but not when it becomes an obsession .

[Phi for All]

!

Moderator Note

The original topic was perhaps based on physical misunderstandings and a lack of precision and rigor, which have hopefully been cleared up. We're now straying wildly from whether or not science is too hidebound to evolve.

At this point, I'd like the opening poster Mallic to let us know if his point has been answered satisfactorily, and if not, to ask specifically for points of clarification. In addition, if the religious aspects have been discussed sufficiently, I can move this to Psychology (where it was originally intended to live) for additional perspectives (and replies that will be less personal, more civil, yes?).

 

[Mallic]

would I say all my questions were answered? Not entirely but I can say I can walk away content with the answers I got knowing I still have a lot to learn

[iNow]

5 hours ago, Mallic said:

I've yet to meet an atheist that was one because of genuine disbelief, as opposed to just using it as an excuse to spite people who do believe or as an excuse to just do whatever they want regardless of the consequences. For lack of a better term, I've yet to meet an atheist where a disbelief in god was all it was.

You have now

Nickel's worth of free advice? You'll get along much better here if you remove that giant chip from your shoulder and approach posters as individuals, not stereotypes and labels.