Table Tennis, Lawn Tennis, Badminton Smashes.

[prashantakerkar]

Observation

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1 Table tennis :

Table tennis players return smashes with smashes many times.

Reason : 

2 Lawn tennis :

Lawn tennis players cannot return smashes with smashes.

Reason : 

3 Badminton : 

Badminton players cannot return smashes with smashes.

Reason : 

Thanks & Regards,

Prashant S Akerkar

Edited July 30, 2018 by prashantakerkar
Content.

[pavelcherepan]

Define "smash" please. If you're using the term as it is used in lawn tennis, i.e. a shot that is hit above hitter's head, then this:

1 hour ago, prashantakerkar said:

Table tennis players return smashes with smashes many times.

Is not really the case. And this:

1 hour ago, prashantakerkar said:

2 Lawn tennis :

Lawn tennis players cannot return smashes with smashes.

Reason : 

is just wrong. There's no reason it can't be done.

1 hour ago, prashantakerkar said:

3 Badminton : 

Badminton players cannot return smashes with smashes.

Reason : 

This one is correct for a simple reason - in badminton the shuttlecock is not allowed to hit the play court, so it can't bounce up.

[prashantakerkar]

Thank you.

I have seen many table tennis Chinese players who may be experts in the game return smashes with smashes.

Smash means hitting the table tennis ball hard on the opposite side of the table i.e opponent so that it cannot be returned back. But I have seen in Olympics games that the Opponent responds a Smash with a Smash.

I have observed, (I may be wrong), in Lawn tennis, a Smash by a Lawn tennis player is very difficult to respond again with a Smash.

For example :

Roger Federer v/s Nadal Mens singles lawn tennis match.

If Federer hits a Smash, it is difficult to respond a Smash by Nadal and vice versa.

Thanks & Regards,

Prashant S Akerkar

[pavelcherepan]

6 minutes ago, prashantakerkar said:

Smash means hitting the table tennis ball hard on the opposite side of the table i.e opponent so that it cannot be returned back.

This (highlighted) makes no sense. If for smash you need to hit such that the ball or the shuttlecock can't be returned back, then you can't have returned smashes in any of those games.

If, on the other hand, you are referring to simply a very strong shot, then can return "smashes" in each and every game you mentioned. Just watch some high-level badminton or tennis play, especially if you look at some masters of back line play like Andre Agassi. 

[prashantakerkar]

Thank you.

Of course, there could be exceptional Lawn tennis players who may be returning or responding opponent Smash with again a Smash.

But I have observed some Chinese table tennis players definitely in Olympics games where they return smashes with smashes.

Thanks & Regards,

Prashant S Akerkar

[studiot]

Well my observation is that both prash and pavel are right and wrong, all mixed up.

But +1 to prash for observation and politely sticking to his guns.

 

The three games have some features in common and some differences and pavel correctly highlights some of these.

Each game is a combination of skill, the peculiarities of its rules and brute force. These work very differently in each case.

The smash is a common feature and employs brute force to nullify any aerodynamic effects to ground the projectile in the target area, making return difficult.
The projectile travels in pretty near a direct line from racket to target ground there is no sideways or up and down movement in the air from that line due to the aerodynamics of the shot.
A consequence of this is that there must be a line of sight or direct line from projectile to target area at the moment it is struck.
Many shots in all three games occur below the top of net level where this is thus impossible. In simple terms the projectile must be high enough.

In badminton, as Pavel points out, once the projectile is grounded the rally is over and return forbidden so that is the end of it.
Alternatively the oppononent must hit the shuttle before it strikes the target area.

In contrast, in table tennis the opponent must not hit the ball before it strikes the target area.
However the top of the net is low compared to the players so there are many opportinuities to effect a smash after the ball has bounced.
Further the opponent may strike the ball a long way back from or to the side of the table.
Much table tennis play is done from this position.
So yes prash is right that top players can and do countersmash in table tennis.

In tennis, by contrast, the opponent may strike the ball before it bounces (in badminton he must) so can take the opportunity to find a direct line to the target area.
This usually occurs to a high ball and the smash stroke can get right on top of it, driving it hard down so that it bounces very fast back (or sideways) from its strike of the target area out of reach of the opponent.
The direct line to smash back may well not occur until the ball is well into the crowd.
So tennis smashes are difficult to return, let alone to smash back.

 

 

[pavelcherepan]

26 minutes ago, studiot said:

In tennis, by contrast, the opponent may strike the ball before it bounces (in badminton he must) so can take the opportunity to find a direct line to the target area.
This usually occurs to a high ball and the smash stroke can get right on top of it, driving it hard down so that it bounces very fast back (or sideways) from its strike of the target area out of reach of the opponent.
The direct line to smash back may well not occur until the ball is well into the crowd.
So tennis smashes are difficult to return, let alone to smash back.

The way Prashant has been describing the situation, a strong shot from the back line would also be considered a "smash". Let's not forget about the weight of the projectile here. In table tennis the ball is very light and even though subjected to severe drag, in a short distance to opponent's side it travels essentially in a straight line. It is, therefore, necessary in order to perform the strongest possible shot to hit when the ball is above the level of the net.

In tennis the ball is significantly heavier and, when hit from the back line will travel on a ballistic trajectory even when hit with the maximum force. Hence, it's possible to perform the strongest shot even when the ball is below the level of the net provided that there is sufficient distance to target.

It is easier in table tennis, I don't argue this point, but returning smash is very much possible in lawn tennis, especially when the play is done on "slow" surface, especially grass, which allows players more time to get to the ball after opponent's shot.

Edited July 30, 2018 by pavelcherepan

[DrP]

32 minutes ago, pavelcherepan said:

, a strong shot from the back line would also be considered a "smash".

In badminton it is just called a clear I think. Smash is going down - it is an attempt to win the point. The clear is like a smash in power and the way you hit it but it goes up....  up high and clear all the way to the back of the court, preferably aiming to land right on the back line. You don't expect to win the point on this shot, you usually get the same shot back at you.

[studiot]

26 minutes ago, pavelcherepan said:

The way Prashant has been describing the situation, a strong shot from the back line would also be considered a "smash". Let's not forget about the weight of the projectile here

That is not incompatible with with I said, except that you can only smash along a direct line. Other trajectories would bring other factors into play.

That is where the skill of the player comes in.

29 minutes ago, pavelcherepan said:

In table tennis the ball is very light and even though subjected to severe drag, in a short distance to opponent's side it travels essentially in a straight line.

The underlined is inaccurate for most table tennis play. As I said it occurs in a straight line in smashes. In other situations spin plays a major part.

Spin also complicates tennis but less so because as you mention the inertial forces (weight) are a greater proportion of action.

Nevertheless top tennis players can impart significant topspin, sufficient to lift the ball over the net in a powerful drive.
I can't do this in tennis but can in table tennis, where the result is even more significant.

Neither of these strokes are considered smashes.

39 minutes ago, pavelcherepan said:

in tennis the ball is significantly heavier and, when hit from the back line will travel on a ballistic trajectory even when hit with the maximum force.

No I don't agree. A ballistic trajectory is a downward curve under the action of gravity.
Spin plays a far larger part in trajectory modification (The Magnus effect).