Split from Big Bang - doubts ?

[Taingorz]

well I really wonder how 'something' can come from 'nothing' as the Big Bang implies.

 

of course something like that can't be done, but it is also against all physical laws, right?

 

So how do they explain then that 'something' came from 'nothing"?

Edited August 2, 2018 by Taingorz

[DrP]

10 minutes ago, Taingorz said:

 

So how do they explain then that 'something' came from 'nothing"?

They don't - because it doesn't. That is not the claim of the big bang theory.   It is the claim of people that do not understand it.

[Taingorz]

Just now, DrP said:

They don't - because it doesn't. That is not the claim of the big bang theory.   It is the claim of people that do not understand it.

 

Well, not really,. real scientist do say this! Or are you claiming these scientist don't understand the Big Bang, then I do agree.

 

"Something' can not come from 'nothing" on this we agree, right?

[geordief]

2 minutes ago, Taingorz said:

 

Well, not really,. real scientist do say this! Or are you claiming these scientist don't understand the Big Bang, then I do agree.

 

"Something' can not come from 'nothing" on this we agree, right?

How do you  personally understand the "Big Bang" ?

[DrP]

Just now, Taingorz said:

 

Well, not really,. real scientist do say this!

 

Who says this? Give me a list of some 'real scientists' that say that the big bang claims that the matter in this universe came from nothing.

[Taingorz]

1 minute ago, DrP said:

Who says this? Give me a list of some 'real scientists' that say that the big bang claims that the matter in this universe came from nothing.

No problem at all!

 

no problem at all!

 

no problem at all

 

no problem

 

Stephen hawking at his TED talk:

 

"Under extreme conditions, general relativity and quantum theory allow time to behave like another dimension of space. This removes the distinction between time and space, and means the laws of evolution can also determine the initial state. The universe can spontaneously create itself out of nothing. "

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/stephen_hawking_asks_big_questions_about_the_universe/transcript

[DrP]

I don't understand the Hawkins quote - I don't think he's talking about the big bang.

"life evolved out of NEARLY nothing"   -  is not nothing.

The Kaku quote says "ONE Theory is the universe came from nothing"  - NOT The Big Bang theory.

 

There are experts here that will explain these to you - I am not one.  But I can tell you those quotes aren't relating to TBB.  No-one knows how the matter was created that the BB used in it's 'bang'. How could they?

 

 

 

[Taingorz]

6 minutes ago, DrP said:

I don't understand the Hawkins quote - I don't think he's talking about the big bang.

"life evolved out of NEARLY nothing"   -  is not nothing.

The Kaku quote says "ONE Theory is the universe came from nothing"  - NOT The Big Bang theory.

 

There are experts here that will explain these to you - I am not one.  But I can tell you those quotes aren't relating to TBB.  No-one knows how the matter was created that the BB used in it's 'bang'. How could they?

 

 

Experts that explain? without asking questions? Man the whoel idea of the Big Bang is very stupid to me, because, again, you can't get somwething out of 'nothing' Is that so difficult to understand?

It seems.

Well,l yes they DO say that the universe was created out of nothing. And when Hawkins says it you sy it is not about the Big Bang, who are you kidding? If even says so in the TED video, just take a look!

 

Those people have NO idea what they are talking about. Something can not be created out of nothing.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Taingorz

[geordief]

Where does "Hawkins** says it"? Show us the quote.

**It's "Hawking"

Edited August 2, 2018 by geordief

[Taingorz]

3 minutes ago, geordief said:

Where does "Hawkins** says it"? Show us the quote.

**It's "Hawkin"

it's Hawking of course sorry I made a typo, O man, look above about the Ted talk!\

 

First i say the scientist say the universe was created out of nothing, then you people didn't agree, well ok.

Then I was asked for 'scientists' who said or wrote that, then I came with the  'scientist' and even then 

it wasn't good enough.

 

 

it's the only thing I am asking how 'something' can be created out  of nothing?

 

please, that's all I ask.

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Taingorz

[DrP]

1 minute ago, Taingorz said:

Well,l yes they DO say that the universe was created out of nothing. And when Hawkins says it you sy it is not about the Big Bang, who are you kidding? If even says so in the TED video, just take a look!

 

Thiose people have NO idea what they are talking about. Something can not be created out of nothing.

 

 

Have you seen the program - The Big Bang Theory?  The song at the start suggests  -  "the whole universe was in a hot dense state...."    Before the big bang the universe was in a hot dense state  -  this is not nothing and it is not claimed that it was nothing.   What was before the hot dense state?  I don't know and nobody does  -  many may 'speculate' that it came from nothing, but that is nothing to do with the big bang theory and is pure speculation.   Your question was regarding the big bang theory - not 'the creation of the universe' - which is why people are asking you if you really understand what TBBT says - which clearly you don't. 

As I said - I am not an expert - I only have a degree in Physics and chemistry - I never covered it at uni so I will let others that are more knowledgeable explain it to you - but if you don't accept what they say then why would they bother taslking to you - you seem hung up on this 'something from nothing' nonsense - it sounds like something your pastor might claim.  

What about these newly discovered particles that appear and disappear out of 'nowhere' in a vacuum....  I'm sure they don't come from 'nothing'...  they must come from somewhere - no-one knows.

Just now, Taingorz said:

 

First i say the scientist say the universe was created out of nothing, then you people didn't agree, well ok.

Then I was asked for 'scientists' who said or wrote that, then I came with the  'scientist' and even then 

it wasn't good enough.

 

 

Just , it's the only thing I am asking how 'something' can be created out  of nothing?

 

 

You are clearly not listening... bye.

Just repeating the question isn't going to help you understand it when you have been told you are already barking up the wrong tree.  Sorry - your question doesn't prove or disprove anything.  God is a myth - get over it.

[geordief]

Yes I am not going to get into "something out of nothing" (interesting but beyond me).

 

But you started by claiming that the Big Bang Theory implied  this. 

 

Do you now agree that that is not the case?

[studiot]

1 hour ago, Taingorz said:

it's the only thing I am asking how 'something' can be created out  of nothing?

 

If this is the only thing you are asking, please tell me what you think  a shadow is made of?

 

That should avoid contentious isses.

[swansont]

1 hour ago, Taingorz said:

 Those people have NO idea what they are talking about. Something can not be created out of nothing.

And your justification from this is...what, exactly?

 

As for ascribing this to the bog bang, well there's a problem. There is a model in which the energy of the universe is zero, which is where the something from nothing comes from. The negative gravitational potential energy (and perhaps other sources) balances the positive energy (mass, kinetic), such that the total is zero. However, it would be a mistake ascribe this to the big bang theory. Zero energy would be one possibility within the big bang theory.

[Silvestru]

1 hour ago, Taingorz said:

it's the only thing I am asking how 'something' can be created out  of nothing?

please, that's all I ask.

You probably reached the maximum number of posts for new members. Which is a good thing as I think you need a time-out to read what other members are trying to explain.

As other members pointed out - The big bang describes how the universe expanded from a very high-density and high-temperature state. (not from nothing)

There are some models which try to describe what you are talking about but it has nothing to do with the Big bang.

Stop searching for quotes in Ted talks. No one thinks or says that the Big Bang explains how the Universe was created from nothing.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Silvestru

[Endy0816]

All the evidence supports the Universe going from a hot dense state to the less dense and much cooler state that it is in today. So no, it has run the gauntlet and earned the exalted title of Theory.

...and we've seen(necessarily indirectly) dark matter at this point. Hydrogen 'clings' to it gravitationally, much like water clings to a spider's web.

[Taingorz]

Well, people keep saying here that 'scientist' don't say that 'something' came out of 'nothing", despite the evidence I have showed.

 

Well here is another one, another 'scientist" , Lawrance Krauss , even wrote a book with the title:

 

 

 

Now I am curious if people stay saying that 'scientists'  don't say the universe came from 'nothing"?

 

if so, that will be very clearly a state of denial cause by cognitive dissonance.

30 minutes ago, Endy0816 said:

All the evidence supports the Universe going from a hot dense state to the less dense and much cooler state that it is in today. So no,

What evidence?

[studiot]

5 minutes ago, Taingorz said:

Now I am curious if people stay saying that 'scientists'  don't say the universe came from 'nothing"?

 

I didn't say anything of the sort.

 

But I am curious why you don't want to answer my question, since it supports your stance.

[DrP]

7 minutes ago, Taingorz said:

Well, people keep saying here that 'scientist' don't say that 'something' came out of 'nothing", despite the evidence I have showed.

 

You showed nothing of the sort.  You showed some out of context quotes which you clearly did not understand.

Regarding the book - that is the title only  -  what does it claim within the book?  You have read it yea?  Of course you have else you wouldn't put it forwards as evidence - that would be really stupid.   I haven't read it  - can you quote sections from the book that claim the universe 'came from nothing'?   Even if it does it is probably speculative philosophising - it might be beyond your comprehension if you are going to conclude that 'scientists' claim that the universe came from nothing.

 

 

 

 

[Taingorz]

Oh my god, even if you put the evidence in front of their noses. they don't want to see it.

 

and 'out of context'? Yeah right, seen it before if people try to get away with something.

 

anything goes, eh?!

 

 

But ok, because people here can't handle thse things let reverse it What do 'scientist' say or write about the origin of the Big Bang?

16 minutes ago, studiot said:

But I am curious why you don't want to answer my question, since it supports your stance.

Ok, sorry for that, but what question?

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, Taingorz said:

Oh my god, even if you put the evidence in front of their noses. they don't want to see it.

 

and 'out of context'? Yeah right, seen it before if people try to get away with something.

 

anything goes, eh?!

 

 

But ok, because people here can't handle thse things let reverse it What do 'scientist' say or write about the origin of the Big Bang?

That old chestnut  generally people who say that don't seem to understand what the word evidence actually means.

[Taingorz]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

That old chestnut  generally people who say that don't seem to understand what the word evidence actually means.

yes I do, people here write that there were no scientists that said that 'something' came out of 'nothing" I showed evidence that they did.

 

That those people can't 'grok' that is not my fault.

[studiot]

On 02/08/2018 at 1:17 PM, studiot said:

If this is the only thing you are asking, please tell me what you think  a shadow is made of?

 

That should avoid contentious isses.

 

8 minutes ago, Taingorz said:

21 minutes ago, studiot said:

But I am curious why you don't want to answer my question, since it supports your stance.

Ok, sorry for that, but what question?

For the record no one is entitled to state as fact what came before the big bang.

The plain fact is we just don't know.

 

Of course many speculate about how it might have unfolded. Some have more coherent thoughts than others.

 

I grew up in the time when the theories of Hoyle and Bondi held sway. They conformed to the best available evidence at the time.

Subsequent observations have discredited those theories, as their better observations discredited theories cast before their time.

So the process goes on.

 

What we can say is that the current BB hypothesis best fits the currently available data, but it does not fit it perfectly and the fit breaks down altogether if we go back far enough in time.

Beyond that point it is all speculation. and all to play for.

 

Now please answer my question.

[Taingorz]

3 minutes ago, studiot said:

Now please answer my question.

again, what question exactly?

Edited August 3, 2018 by Taingorz

[studiot]

2 minutes ago, Taingorz said:

again, what question exactly?

It was restated in the first line on my preveious post, for your convenience, and identified, in the conventional manner, with a question mark.

Edited August 3, 2018 by studiot