The brain: Is it possible to modify long term memory

[fredreload]

We are constantly storing new memories, but is it possible to modify existing memories? Sure if you hit the head with a baseball bat you ought to forget a few things, but what if you can modify the memory with electromagnetic radiation? What if you can modify even the most basic logical concept? Sounds pretty cool heh.

[iNow]

Actually, every single time we think of a memory it changes it slightly. The nature by which they’re stored causes them to be rewritten slightly every time they’re read. Memories are quite fallible and malleable.

The simple act of accessing a memory by default causes us to edit or reshape it. Subtle features change, colors, sounds, related details all get amended. Smell tends to be one of the most persistent memories, but even that changes over time. We use the creative bits of our brain to fill in the gaps and sometimes those fictions get reinforced or more deeply embedded.

Use of electroshock therapy or transcranial magnetic stimulation essentially accelerates those same processes and allow the effects to be more pronounced and more intentionally focused. 

[fredreload]

3 hours ago, iNow said:

Actually, every single time we think of a memory it changes it slightly. The nature by which they’re stored causes them to be rewritten slightly every time they’re read. Memories are quite fallible and malleable.

The simple act of accessing a memory by default causes us to edit or reshape it. Subtle features change, colors, sounds, related details all get amended. Smell tends to be one of the most persistent memories, but even that changes over time. We use the creative bits of our brain to fill in the gaps and sometimes those fictions get reinforced or more deeply embedded.

Use of electroshock therapy or transcranial magnetic stimulation essentially accelerates those same processes and allow the effects to be more pronounced and more intentionally focused. 

Cool things you've mentioned. Is it possible to cause a memory formation with transcranial magnetic stimulation? Like inserting a manual about how to pilot helicopters into the brain like the Matrix. Or suddently knows how to speak Japanese like the movie Dude Where's My Car. Or a simple inception of thought into the mind like "cow can fly". I think the last one requires overriding the synapse. Like if someone use transcranial magnetic stimulation on my arms and legs they would move on its own. I dunno how many synapses I got in the brain, but once I've learned something I can recall it instantly like how to play Super Smash. Anyway this seems like an interesting topic

 

P.S Of course modifying existing memory is harder, I mean you don't just keep adding brain cells or synapses to make more memories, else the brain would be too big for the head.

Edited August 7, 2018 by fredreload

[iNow]

1 hour ago, fredreload said:

Is it possible to cause a memory formation with transcranial magnetic stimulation? Like inserting a manual about how to pilot helicopters into the brain like the Matrix.

Memories would be formed during the experience, but not in the way you're asking. Much like when you visit the dentist you form new memories during the experience, you'd form new memories during a TMS session. The affect of the TMS on a person's memory, however, would be contingent on location, intensity, and duration of the stimulus. For now, though... No. You don't know kung fu.

Kidding aside, the Department of Defense is doing some interesting work to increase the speed of learning:

https://futurism.com/darpas-new-brain-device-increases-learning-speed-by-40/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1164793/darpa-funds-brain-stimulation-research-to-speed-learning/

[fredreload]

12 hours ago, iNow said:

Memories would be formed during the experience, but not in the way you're asking. Much like when you visit the dentist you form new memories during the experience, you'd form new memories during a TMS session. The affect of the TMS on a person's memory, however, would be contingent on location, intensity, and duration of the stimulus. For now, though... No. You don't know kung fu.

Kidding aside, the Department of Defense is doing some interesting work to increase the speed of learning:

https://futurism.com/darpas-new-brain-device-increases-learning-speed-by-40/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1164793/darpa-funds-brain-stimulation-research-to-speed-learning/

Well yes, I dunno Kung Fu, looks like you've found out , I think sensei gave up on me. Anyway, theoretically if I stick a new synapse here and there in the brain and allow a connection to pass through and form a pattern I could theoretically gain access to memory I do not have before. 40% is not a lot, the TMS probably just makes you more alert. However, if you've taken a drug that would make any pattern in the brain stays permanently(I am saying photographic memory). Brain is already a huge electric field, it is the learning process that matters. No offense, it is still an interesting research, everything has to start somewhere

[iNow]

52 minutes ago, fredreload said:

if I stick a new synapse here and there in the brain and allow a connection to pass through and form a pattern I could theoretically gain access to memory I do not have before

[fredreload]

2 hours ago, iNow said:

Looks like the dream master haven't done anything @@, I still got my common sense , if they don't ruin someone with brain cancer by accident

Edited August 8, 2018 by fredreload

[Strange]

23 hours ago, iNow said:

Actually, every single time we think of a memory it changes it slightly. The nature by which they’re stored causes them to be rewritten slightly every time they’re read. Memories are quite fallible and malleable.

There have been many experiments done to tests this. For example, getting people to remember things that never happened by subtly prompting them cues and questions. One example was getting people to remember meeting Bugs Bunny at Disneyland (for anyone not sure about this; Bugs is not a Disney character). 

This shows that we need to be cautious when relying on our own memory, about stories of childhood abuse (but we must also ensure we don't just dismiss them) or stories of "past lives" (we probably can dismiss those!)

[fredreload]

23 minutes ago, Strange said:

There have been many experiments done to tests this. For example, getting people to remember things that never happened by subtly prompting them cues and questions. One example was getting people to remember meeting Bugs Bunny at Disneyland (for anyone not sure about this; Bugs is not a Disney character). 

This shows that we need to be cautious when relying on our own memory, about stories of childhood abuse (but we must also ensure we don't just dismiss them) or stories of "past lives" (we probably can dismiss those!)

Hmm, there are two ways I can think of that goes about modifying the memory. If you have to relocate the synapses by activating proteins with the plasmonic laser. Or if you can "target" a specific neuron, drink a potion and attempt to have the memory rewire itself. I haven't thought of a method where you can "target" a specific neuron with drugs, but drinking something and gaining a set of memories sounds pretty cool right?

[Strange]

1 hour ago, fredreload said:

Hmm, there are two ways I can think of that goes about modifying the memory.

Both of which are pure science fiction.

But in the real world, it is quite easy to modify or implant false memories.

[mistermack]

I think it might be possible in the future to modify the memory with drugs and suggestion. Who can tell what drugs will be developed?

People can acquire false memories without drugs, it's happened to me at least twice. Whether it could be directed by vocal suggestion and powerful drugs, I'm guessing that it will be possible one day.

[Strange]

13 hours ago, mistermack said:

I think it might be possible in the future to modify the memory with drugs and suggestion. Who can tell what drugs will be developed?

People can acquire false memories without drugs, it's happened to me at least twice. Whether it could be directed by vocal suggestion and powerful drugs, I'm guessing that it will be possible one day.

It is already possible, just using suggestion.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/false-memories/

Much more here: https://scholar.google.it/scholar?q=creating+false+memories

[mistermack]

2 hours ago, Strange said:

It is already possible, just using suggestion.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/false-memories/

Much more here: https://scholar.google.it/scholar?q=creating+false+memories

Well pointed out. I had heard of that sort of thing, and obviously forgotten it again. I wish that they could produce a drug to improve the memory.

One of my "false memories" was a bit of sales chat that I used to use on a regular basis. It wasn't true, but I didn't regard it as lying, just something to keep the conversation going. I repeated it so often, I must have started believing it, because I told the same story back to the friend who originally told it to me. (as if it had actually happened to me). He gave me a funny look, and commented that the the exact same thing had happened to him ! 

I got a real shock when I realised it was just a much repeated fib that had become a false memory.