John McCain

[J.C.MacSwell]

17 minutes ago, rangerx said:

So merely voting for a despot is beyond reproach then?

That sounds like censorship to me, no less coming from someone who claims to be a champion for free speech.

Disagreeing with Democrat's approach and tactics is hardly a call to censor them. 

[rangerx]

4 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

If you restricted your insults to those people, your justification needs no more than the crimes they have committed. 

 

4 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Disagreeing with Democrat's approach and tactics is hardly a call to censor them. 

Insisting others restrict what you call insults from the narrative, is invoking censorship.

Besides that, Ten oz admonishing conservative voters for what they have wrought is not an insult. It's a fact.

Fail x2

[Ten oz]

13 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Disagreeing with Democrat's approach and tactics is hardly a call to censor them. 

One can disagree with Democrats all they want. I am against universal income, free college, and several other policies currently being discussed by some Democrats. One can have an honest discussion about those things. However one cannot have an honest discussion with liars and those who support liars. One can't have an honest discussion with those who denigrate the names of the recently deceased. John McCain is dead and not around to defend his name. 

[rangerx]

x3, if you account for the "approach and tactics" tactic we often hear from you.

19 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Disagreeing with Democrat's approach and tactics is hardly a call to censor them. 

 

Chastising Ten Oz for using a wide brush, with a wide brush.

Clearly a double standard.

[MigL]

I have always defended J McCain, even when some of those who are currently 'outraged' by D Trump's attitude towards him, were less than enthusiastic about his character and fitness for POTUS.
But how far do you go in blaming D Trump supporters for his actions ?
And if you're going to blame them for having elected him and still supporting him, how about the roughly 45% of eligible voters who didn't cast a vote in the last election ?
One could argue that if they cared about the outcome, they would have got out their vote.Obviously they didn't care, or were happy with the outcome.
Or, for that matter, if they were so concerned about the outcome, why didn't Democrats and people who voted for H Clinton try to sway other's opinions to vote against D Trump ?
Did they not care enough to avoid having a lying, boorish buffoon for a president ?

You see how quickly it gets ridiculous when you start playing the blame game.
You convince people by educating them, not by blaming them.

[rangerx]

3 minutes ago, MigL said:

I have always defended J McCain, even when some of those who are currently 'outraged' by D Trump's attitude towards him, were less than enthusiastic about his character and fitness for POTUS.
But how far do you go in blaming D Trump supporters for his actions ?
And if you're going to blame them for having elected him and still supporting him, how about the roughly 45% of eligible voters who didn't cast a vote in the last election ?
One could argue that if they cared about the outcome, they would have got out their vote.Obviously they didn't care, or were happy with the outcome.
Or, for that matter, if they were so concerned about the outcome, why didn't Democrats and people who voted for H Clinton try to sway other's opinions to vote against D Trump ?
Did they not care enough to avoid having a lying, boorish buffoon for a president ?

You see how quickly it gets ridiculous when you start playing the blame game.
You convince people by educating them, not by blaming them.

McCain would have been a decent president. The mere thought of Sarah Palin becoming president if he passed, is quite frankly... disturbing.

We are talking about his base here. Not the one's who didn't vote, nor the Canadians in this discussion who just happen to be conservative or liberal.

Trump serves his base, not his country. That's no leader, it's a tyrant. McCain fought and served to end tyranny, but Trump is renewing it to an unprecedented level. When the voters uphold that level, democracy is lost. It's just that simple.

[Ten oz]

20 minutes ago, MigL said:

But how far do you go in blaming D Trump supporters for his actions ?

Considering he wouldn't hold elected office without them I blame them a lot. President Trump doesn't exist minus his supporters. 

22 minutes ago, MigL said:

Or, for that matter, if they were so concerned about the outcome, why didn't Democrats and people who voted for H Clinton try to sway other's opinions to vote against D Trump ?

Trump lost the popular vote by millions. Seems to me Democrats did what they could. 

24 minutes ago, MigL said:

You see how quickly it gets ridiculous when you start playing the blame game.
You convince people by educating them, not by blaming them.

Educating them about what. Michelle Malkin called McCain a "sell out" during a speech on stage at CPAC just last month. Conservatives here in the U.S. see the disrespect being thrown at McCain and clearly don't care. 

[rangerx]

5 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Conservatives here in the U.S. see the disrespect being thrown at McCain and clearly don't care. 

Biting off their nose to spite their face is what that is.

The lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe, which is not so much a fringe nowadays. It's an ever widening swath, ripping through the middle of it. Drowning everything in it's wake.

[J.C.MacSwell]

1 hour ago, rangerx said:

 

Insisting others restrict what you call insults from the narrative, is invoking censorship.

 

Good thing I didn't insist on that then.

1 hour ago, rangerx said:

Besides that, Ten oz admonishing conservative voters for what they have wrought is not an insult. It's a fact.
 

Clearly they need a better alternative...not insults.

[Ten oz]

1 minute ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Clearly they need a better alternative...not insults.

Do they feel they need an alternative? 

[J.C.MacSwell]

Just now, Ten oz said:

Do they feel they need an alternative? 

Some would say yes, some no. Of the ones who say no, what if they were shown a better alternative? What if that alternative came without the insults?

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

One can disagree with Democrats all they want. I am against universal income, free college, and several other policies currently being discussed by some Democrats. One can have an honest discussion about those things. However one cannot have an honest discussion with liars and those who support liars. 

How much deceit do you tolerate from those you support?

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

 One can't have an honest discussion with those who denigrate the names of the recently deceased. John McCain is dead and not around to defend his name. 

Trump is doing that...few, if any, of his supporters are doing so. 

[Ten oz]

13 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Some would say yes, some no. Of the ones who say no, what if they were shown a better alternative? What if that alternative came without the insults?

In my opinion it is far more insulting to assume them misinformed, in need of alternatives, or etc. I am respecting them enough to take them at face value and object accordingly without assuming or projecting special needs. 

They (U.S. Conservatives) aren't children. 

 

[rangerx]

3 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

In my opinion it is far more insulting to assume them misinformed, in need of alternatives, or etc. I am respecting them enough to take them at face value and object accordingly without assuming or projecting special needs. 

They (U.S. Conservatives) aren't children.

Besides that, this thread is about Trump posthumously insulting John McCain, not JCM's propensity for narrative flipping and moving goal posts.

In fact, hasn't contributed a single point germane to the OP.

[iNow]

The point of Trump's tweet is now we're arguing about McCain and conservatives instead of the Mueller report. Weapons of mass distraction...

[Ten oz]

31 minutes ago, iNow said:

The point of Trump's tweet is now we're arguing about McCain and conservatives instead of the Mueller report. Weapons of mass distraction...

While true doesn't say something fairly damning about those who support Trump that dragging a dead war heroes name threw the mud is a safe distraction tactic? 

Trump is more careful when condemning Nazis than he is talking trash about McCain. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Ten oz

[J.C.MacSwell]

33 minutes ago, rangerx said:

Besides that, this thread is about Trump posthumously insulting John McCain, not JCM's propensity for narrative flipping and moving goal posts.

In fact, hasn't contributed a single point germane to the OP.

If you followed it you would realize it was with regard to Ten oz.s contention (whether correct or not, doesn't matter) that Trump supporters are responsible for Trump's comments denigrating McCain.

Also. I regret to inform you that Trump is still alive...

[rangerx]

7 minutes ago, iNow said:

The point of Trump's tweet is now we're arguing about McCain and conservatives instead of the Mueller report. Weapons of mass distraction...

Yeah that. He knows his goose is cooked, but insulting McCain is just the tip of ice berg of his scorched earth policy.

No stoop too abysmal.

McCain, gained the nomination when American conservatives needed a moderate candidate. That went out the window when he had Sarah Palin imposed on him by his donors.

1 minute ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Also. I regret to inform you that Trump is still alive...

Now you flip the narrative on me as though I'm unaware of that fact?

It's rich for you to soapbox Ten Oz about perceived insults while openly using absurd insults on others.

Hypocrisy at it's height.

[J.C.MacSwell]

17 minutes ago, rangerx said:

 

Now you flip the narrative on me as though I'm unaware of that fact?

It's rich for you to soapbox Ten Oz about perceived insults while openly using absurd insults on others.

Hypocrisy at it's height.

No. It was a joke. I apologize if you were offended as offence was not intended.

[Ten oz]

23 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

If you followed it you would realize it was with regard to Ten oz.s contention (whether correct or not, doesn't matter) that Trump supporters are responsible for Trump's comments denigrating McCain.

Also. I regret to inform you that Trump is still alive...

I said they were "fine with it". 

[J.C.MacSwell]

3 hours ago, Ten oz said:

I said they were "fine with it". 

 

6 hours ago, Ten oz said:

Considering he wouldn't hold elected office without them I blame them a lot. President Trump doesn't exist minus his supporters. 

 

 

[Ten oz]

@J.C.MacSwell you are playing with context now. My original post which began our back and forth stated that Trump supporters are "fine with" his treatment of McCain. The qoute you posted referencing blame was in response to a post by MigL, not you, and was of a more general nature.

Trump supporters are the reason President Trump exists. The key word there being President. I was accurately saying his supporters elected him. 

[Ten oz]

"Cindy McCain on Tuesday posted a vile message she received from a person on Twitter who disliked her deceased husband, Sen. John McCain.

"Your husband was a traitorous piece of warmongering sh— and I'm glad he's dead," the person wrote.

The woman also compared McCain's daughter Meghan to Miss Piggy and said she hopes she "chokes to death."

"I want to make sure all of you could see how kind and loving a stranger can be,"Cindy McCain said in her post. "I'm posting her note for her family and friends could see."

The tweet came on the same day President Donald Trump disparaged her late husband over the late Arizona senator's vote against repealing Obamacare."

Link

[iNow]

That could equally be posted in the dangerous / toxic politics thread

[Ten oz]

18 minutes ago, iNow said:

That could equally be posted in the dangerous / toxic politics thread

Absolutely

[Airbrush]

It shocked me, but not surprising, to see Trump claim, in the recent interview by Maria Bartiromo, the first thing that pops into his diminished mind why he hated John McCain so much, calling him "horrible," is that McCain voted NO on repeal and replace Obamacare, and Trump LIED substantially that McCain's vote took health care away from people.  Bartiromo did not call it out, so she is complicit.  The GOP replacements to Obamacare (25% approval) were half as popular as Obamacare (50% approval), if I recall correctly, and would in fact take health care away from millions of people.  This is another of a million examples of psychological projection by Trump.  He accuses everyone else of doing, or being, what he does, or how he is.  Very clever tactic to hold his simple-minded base, who either don't notice, don't believe, or don't care.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/watch-trump-fumes-and-calls-foxs-maria-bartiromo-fake-news-for-grilling-him-on-mccain-attacks/

"...All three senators had their reasons, and they had each hinted for weeks that they would be reluctant to back the Senate’s various Obamacare repeal proposals. By the wee hours of Friday morning, three different Senate plans — a robust repeal-and-replace bill, a cleaner repeal bill, and finally so-called skinny repeal — had failed over three days of debate.

"Collins and Murkowski voted down all three. They had said for two months that they wouldn’t support a plan that resulted in millions fewer Americans having health coverage. The three health care bills that Republicans tried to pass would have led to between 16 million and 32 million fewer Americans having health insurance, when compared to Obamacare.

"McCain, though, was the surprise. Diagnosed with brain cancer and the subject of much speculation after a rousing Senate speech calling for a return to an open and bipartisan process in the Senate, the Arizona Republican joined the other Republican dissenters at the climax of the Senate health care fight — and helped kill the bill."

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/28/16054700/senate-obamacare-repeal-john-mccain-susan-collins-lisa-murkowski

Edited March 22, 2019 by Airbrush