Did Michelson-Morley experiment prove there was no Aether or that there was no "Aether-wind"

[neuerwind]

One cannot measure the speed of the wind while flying on a balloon.

And no, you cannot prove that ether drag does not exist. You don’t even feel the Earth accelerating and deceleration in its motion.

Edited August 25, 2018 by neuerwind

[Strange]

16 minutes ago, neuerwind said:

One cannot measure the speed of the wind while flying on a balloon.

Which would be equivalent to “aether drag” or any equivalent model where the Earth is stationary wrt the aether. (Which, as noted, is ruled out.)

(And of course one can measure the speed of wind from a balloon, so your comment doesn’t even make sense as an analogy.)

[neuerwind2]

12 hours ago, Strange said:

Which would be equivalent to “aether drag” or any equivalent model where the Earth is stationary wrt the aether. (Which, as noted, is ruled out.)

(And of course one can measure the speed of wind from a balloon, so your comment doesn’t even make sense as an analogy.)

No, you cannot prove that ether drag does not exist. You don’t even feel the Earth accelerating and decelerating in its orbital motion.

Edited August 26, 2018 by neuerwind2

[beecee]

51 minutes ago, neuerwind2 said:

No, you cannot prove that ether drag does not exist. You don’t even feel the Earth accelerating and decelerating in its orbital motion.

No my friend, it is you who is obviously wrong...Simple physics knowledge tells us that  we dint feel the Earth's orbital motion because we are moving along with it, at the same constant speed. The M/M experiment has shown many times that the ether does not exist.

Edited August 26, 2018 by beecee

[Strange]

53 minutes ago, neuerwind2 said:

No, you cannot prove that ether drag does not exist.

Look at the link provided by swansont. 

54 minutes ago, neuerwind2 said:

You don’t even feel the Earth accelerating and decelerating in its orbital motion.

That would because it isn’t accelerating and decelerating. It is in free fall. 

[neuerwind2]

12 minutes ago, Strange said:

Look at the link provided by swansont. 

That would because it isn’t accelerating and decelerating. It is in free fall. 

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/41-our-solar-system/the-earth/orbit/91-at-what-speed-does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun-beginner

" I cannot give you a precise answer, because the speed of the Earth changes all the time as the Earth moves around the Sun. This is because Kepler's second law says that on its orbit, a planet will sweep equal areas in equal amounts of time."

See? It's either accelerating or decelerating.

But, if I put you into an underground lab with all the measurement devices available, you will never be able to measure this fact. That's why the Michelson-Morley experiment was bound to fail.

 

17 minutes ago, beecee said:

No my friend, it is you who is obviously wrong...Simple physics knowledge tells us that  we dint feel the Earth's orbital motion because we are moving along with it, at the same constant speed. The M/M experiment has shown many times that the ether does not exist.

Unfortunately, we're not moving at a constant speed, as the Earth's orbit is elliptical. The Kepler's law still stands true.

Edited August 26, 2018 by neuerwind2

[Strange]

1 minute ago, neuerwind2 said:

See? It's either accelerating or decelerating.

If it were accelerating you would experience a force (like when you are pushed back in the seat of a car). 

2 minutes ago, neuerwind2 said:

Unfortunately, we're not moving at a constant speed, as the Earth's orbit is elliptical. The Kepler's law still stands true.

We are in free fall along with the Earth. 

You should learn some schoolboy physics before making more of a fool of yourself. 

[neuerwind2]

6 minutes ago, Strange said:

If it were accelerating you would experience a force (like when you are pushed back in the seat of a car). 

Exactly!

Do you feel a constant 'push back' while reading ths thread?

 

Quote

We are in free fall along with the Earth. 

Here comes the tricky part. The definition of a free fall. And why there's no ether wind. Meditate on these facts for a moment. 

You see, the Newton's physics finds it's experimental proof only with the human-sized objects. Extrapolating it onto the cosmic system comes at a price.

 

Quote

You should learn some schoolboy physics before making more of a fool of yourself. 

Let's take a more simple example. Like, a comet that's moving around the Sun, coming quite close to it. Do you believe it maintains constant speed while making the turn?

The Earth's orbit is all the same. It abides by the Kepler's law, just like any other cosmic body.

Edited August 26, 2018 by neuerwind2

[beecee]

18 minutes ago, neuerwind2 said:

But, if I put you into an underground lab with all the measurement devices available, you will never be able to measure this fact. That's why the Michelson-Morley experiment was bound to fail.

Yes, the M/M experiment as originally performed did fail in that it was supposed to detct the ether wind which it did not and neither has any improved reproduction of the experiment since.

Quote

Unfortunately, we're not moving at a constant speed, as the Earth's orbit is elliptical. The Kepler's law still stands true.

I'm not arguing against Kepler's Law. I'm saying we dont detect the earth's motion in its orbit or any acceleration due to the fact that we and the atmosphere are moving along with it and as you have already been informed. because the Earth is in free fall around the Sun as defined by all orbits.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/268062/why-dont-we-feel-the-subtle-speed-change-of-earths-elliptical-orbit

https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-we-feel-the-centrifugal-acceleration-of-the-Earth’s-revolution-around-the-Sun

https://www.decodedscience.org/why-dont-we-feel-the-earth-move-acceleration-and-perceived-motion/12851

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-why-we-don-t-feel-earth-s-rotation-according-to-science

[neuerwind2]

11 minutes ago, beecee said:

 I'm saying we dont detect the earth's motion in its orbit or any acceleration due to the fact that we and the atmosphere are moving along with it and as you have already been informed. because the Earth is in free fall around the Sun as defined by all orbits.

Let's put you in a space suit and make you fall from 40 km. Will you be able to detect your free fall? For sure - any simple accelerometer would do that.

Unlike you, or any other object found in your lab, the Earth has its own gravitational field. That's why you cannot blindly apply Newton's laws to it. If we don't detect any acceleration, while it is mathematically (and astronomically) proven to be present... then we're not accelerating in relation to the space around our planet. In other words, the ether drag is present - the Earth carries its time-space together with its huge mass.

P.S. A keen observer should have noted that I've just ditcheda theory of relativity. It's OK, as it of no use anyway  

Edited August 26, 2018 by neuerwind2

[Strange]

36 minutes ago, neuerwind2 said:

And why there's no ether wind.

And an aether that moves with the Earth is ruled out by observation. Sigh. 

37 minutes ago, neuerwind2 said:

The Earth's orbit is all the same. It abides by the Kepler's law, just like any other cosmic body.

And no one said it didn’t. 

11 minutes ago, neuerwind2 said:

Let's put you in a space suit and make you fall from 40 km. Will you be able to detect your free fall? For sure - any simple accelerometer would do that.

Oh good grief. You can’t just make stuff up. An accelerometer in free fall would show zero. 

12 minutes ago, neuerwind2 said:

Unlike you, or any other object found in your lab, the Earth has its own gravitational field.

You are demonstrating impressive new levels of ignorance. Every object has a gravitational field, including you and every object in the room. 

14 minutes ago, neuerwind2 said:

A keen observer should have noted that I've just ditcheda theory of relativity. It's OK, as it of no use anyway  

Which is odd as your computer would not work without it. But I’m not surprised you don’t know that. 

[beecee]

14 minutes ago, neuerwind2 said:

Let's put you in a space suit and make you fall from 40 km. Will you be able to detect your free fall? For sure - any simple accelerometer would do that.

Unlike you, or any other object found in your lab, the Earth has its own gravitational field. That's why you cannot blindly apply Newton's laws to it. If we don't detect any acceleration, while it is mathematically (and astronomically) proven to be present... then we're not accelerating in relation to the space around our planet. In other words, the ether drag is present - the Earth carries its time-space together with its huge mass.

P.S. A keen observer should have noted that I've just ditcheda theory of relativity. It's OK, as it of no use anyway  

Please take your unsupported rhetoric to speculations. This is mainstream physics and from memory preaching your non mainstream unsupported rubbish is against the rules.

Or alternatively you could support what you say with reputable link/s

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, beecee said:

Please take your unsupported rhetoric to speculations.

Reported to suggest that. Although, given the clear ignorance of this poster it might go straight to Trash

[beecee]

56 minutes ago, Strange said:

Oh good grief. You can’t just make stuff up.

If you check out the contents of his five posts so far, it appears that's exactly what he is here for. 

[swansont]

6 hours ago, Strange said:

That would because it isn’t accelerating and decelerating. It is in free fall. 

It is accelerating, but it is also in freefall. 

The acceleration of the earth in its orbit is 5.9 x 10^-3 m/s^2. Even if we weren't in freefall, that wouldn't be trivial to detect. A 100kg person, instead of feeling almost 1 kN of force, would feel just 60 mN. 

!

Moderator Note

Split off to speculations.

I find it curious that we have neuerwind and neuerwind2 in the thread, both posting from the same city. Multiple accounts are a no-no. You will just have to wait until the first-day posting restrictions are lifted.

 

[neuerwind]

20 hours ago, swansont said:

 

!

Moderator Note

Split off to speculations.

I find it curious that we have neuerwind and neuerwind2 in the thread, both posting from the same city. Multiple accounts are a no-no. You will just have to wait until the first-day posting restrictions are lifted.

 

My restrictions were lifted yesterday.

Why are you deleting my messages? People here firmly believe that star abberation is the ultimate proof against aether... while it is not

Edited August 27, 2018 by neuerwind

[beecee]

44 minutes ago, neuerwind said:

My restrictions were lifted yesterday.

Why are you deleting my messages? People here firmly believe that star abberation is the ultimate proof against aether... while it is not

The ultimate evidence against any ether is the continued failure of ever more accurate experiments failing to detect any.

[neuerwind]

8 minutes ago, beecee said:

The ultimate evidence against any ether is the continued failure of ever more accurate experiments failing to detect any.

Let me type my question again. We seem to detect the star abberation caused by the Earth's movement around the Sun (30 km/s), but there is no abberation caused by the solar system moving through galaxy at 220 km/s.

Why so? (I hope you realize that no other solar system in this galaxy moves at precisely 220 km/s into the same direction like we do.)

[beecee]

8 minutes ago, neuerwind said:

Let me type my question again. We seem to detect the star abberation caused by the Earth's movement around the Sun (30 km/s), but there is no abberation caused by the solar system moving through galaxy at 220 km/s.

Why so? (I hope you realize that no other solar system in this galaxy moves at precisely 220 km/s into the same direction like we do.)

Perhasp some knowledge of physics and everyday observation of say a passenger jet going at 600 kms/hr, and stellar aberration and paralex. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberration_of_light

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=stellar+paralex&oq=stellar+paralex&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.7327j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by beecee

[neuerwind]

4 minutes ago, beecee said:

Perhasp some knowledge of physics and everyday observation of say a passenger jet going at 600 kms/hr, and stellar aberration and paralex. 

You surely saved the day! We are moving at mere 30 km/s back and forth around the Sun, that's hurtling through space at an astonishing 220 km/s, which is seven times faster. Surprisingly, only that 30 km/s motion seems to matter.

And no, other stars in the galaxy do not follow the Sun. They travel at their own speed and radius around the center of our galaxy. These speeds and directions are not aligned for sure.

So, where does all of this bring us?

Edited August 27, 2018 by neuerwind

[beecee]

10 minutes ago, neuerwind said:

And no, other stars in the galaxy do not follow the Sun. They travel at their own speed and radius around the center of our galaxy. These speeds and directions are not aligned for sure.

So, where does all of this bring us?

Yes each individual stellar system moves around the galactic center at variable speeds.

Where does that bring us? Actually to the conclusion as shown by many repeated M/M type experiments, that the ether does not exist.

[John Cuthber]

25 minutes ago, neuerwind said:

You surely saved the day! We are moving at mere 30 km/s back and forth around the Sun, that's hurtling through space at an astonishing 220 km/s,

You seem not to have distinguished between

"30 km/s back and forth"

and 
"hurtling through space at an astonishing 220 km/s,"
Would you like to try again?

[neuerwind]

3 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

You seem not to have distinguished between

Would you like to try again?

Well, no. 

You don't seem to understand the magnitude of these effects. I'm wasting my time with you.

[John Cuthber]

43 minutes ago, neuerwind said:

You don't seem to understand the magnitude of these effects

It is about 20 seconds of arc  (OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR).

How big should the effect of our orbit round the galaxy be (OVER THE COURSE OF THE ROTATION OF THE GALAXY)?

 

You might just spot a hint there.
The effect will be roughly 20 * (an astonishing 220 km/s)/ (mere 30 km/s) seconds of arc.

But it will take us 230 million years to go round the milky way so we can spot it.

In the meantime, we can make measurements like the MM experiment which show that there's no ether.

[Silvestru]

1 hour ago, neuerwind said:

Well, no. 

You don't seem to understand the magnitude of these effects. I'm wasting my time with you.

The irony...