The Moons Atomosphere

[Moontanman]

19 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

Is there as site that I can go to read about this specifically related to the moon? I figured this is where the separation is then this is where I will find some answers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation_of_the_Moon

[DrP]

Just now, Theredbarron said:

Cant you just answer the questions?

Which question/s?  Start again, it has got confused.  The OP was well covered in the thread. So what question is left outstanding here?

2 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

this part and I didn't say it is gravity on this thread did I. 

So you concede now that it was air movement and not gravity generated by your spinning mass now?  

[Janus]

55 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

So if its not holding it in place then why when the wind blows the pressure is increased on one side then the object moves not to say that gravity isn't holding it just It appears this way? If gravity is whats holding it then why does it move at all from the start? 

When there is a wind the pressure is greater on one side (windward ), than it is on the other. Air pressure is just the sum of collisions of air molecules.  With a wind, the particles are hitting with more force on the windward side. This also causes a wind shadow effect which lowers the air pressure a bit on the leeward side.

Gravity does not "hold you in place", it pulls down on you.  It is the friction between the object and the surface it is resting on that keeps it in place. If you to remove  the friction, an object on a level surface would start sliding around at the slightest touch, regardless of how strong the gravity was. Gravity only fights efforts to raise the object against its pull.

Gravity on the moon is determined by the same  considerations as gravity everywhere: the mass of the objects involved and the distance between them.   

For a body like the Earth,  your effective weight at different points of the surface are mainly effect by the fact that it's surface is not a perfect sphere,  which alters the distance from the center,  and the slight  centrifugal effect caused by it rotation.  But both of these only result in small variations.

For the moon, these same variations would apply. But being both a smaller body, and spinning 1/27 as fast as the Earth,  the centrifugal effect will be much smaller, and you would get a smaller  variation between pole and equator. 

[studiot]

I blame the education system for fostering the popular myth about the existence of suction and the famous phrase "Nature abhors a vaccum"

Neither are true.

Even (medical) doctors who are intelligent folk and should know much better fall into this trap.

It is the devils own job getting over to them that we do not suck air into our lungs. It is pushed in by outside pressure.

Edited August 29, 2018 by studiot

[StringJunky]

5 minutes ago, studiot said:

I blame the education system for fostering the popular myth about the existence of suction and the famous phrase "Nature abhors a vaccum"

Neither are true.

Even (medical) doctors who are intelligent folk and should know much better fall into this trap.

It is the devils own job getting over to them that we do not suck air into our lungs. It is pushed in by outside pressure.

Would you say suction is a pseudo-force like centrifugal force?

[Strange]

2 hours ago, Theredbarron said:

I thought I was talking about static electricity and the moons atmosphere or lack there of.

When did static electricity come into this? I missed that...

2 hours ago, Theredbarron said:

You must be thinking about the part were all matter is susceptible to static electricity and there fore has magnetic properties

Static electricity and magnetism are different things.

Not all matter is "susceptible" to static electricity.

Not all matter has magnetic properties.

2 hours ago, Theredbarron said:

Can you tell me how much you weigh on the moon at the poles?

Yes. Roughly 1/6th of what I weigh here.

 

1 hour ago, Theredbarron said:

Is there as site that I can go to read about this specifically related to the moon? I figured this is where the separation is then this is where I will find some answers.

https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1018

https://www.space.com/27029-moon-gravity-falling-astronauts.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation_of_the_Moon

1 hour ago, Theredbarron said:

Thank you. I know but I cant find anything in direct reference to the moons poles and weight and density of the matter that surrounds it. 

The gravity of the moon will be the same at the poles and at the equator. The polar and equatorial radius are almost the same and it rotates very slowly.

[Ghideon]

 

3 hours ago, DrP said:

See his other thread.

Yes thanks, I was quite active in that thread for a while.  I do my best to stay away from that topic in this thread. 

[Theredbarron]

29 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Would you say suction is a pseudo-force like centrifugal force?

Why is everyone stuck on gravity? I'm talking about static electricity. I get that it looks as though a vacuum is suction and that pressure is actually pushing on it. Wouldn't that intensify the effects of the static electricity attraction or make it stronger in a direction as to appear to suck it up? Isn't static electricity the balancing of electrical properties as material moves near or while in contact with other matter of different properties? Since gravity is constant all around the surface and the surface is contacting itself all around the planet or moon and the matter in the core is moving past and rubbing against under the surface could it then generate static electricity? Not only does the core already have magnetic properties couldn't it amplify the static electrical difference that are being created all around it? 

This is saying that the crust itself has magnetic properties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field_of_the_Moon

The static electricity of the Moon.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2007/04/static-electricity-could-short-circuit-moon-missions

Earth creates Lightning With its size of magnetic field correct?

[Strange]

5 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

Why is everyone stuck on gravity? I'm talking about static electricity.

Why do you think this is relevant to the moon's atmosphere?

8 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

This is saying that the crust itself has magnetic properties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field_of_the_Moon

This is quite interesting (and surprisingly relevant) because it says: "There's growing evidence that fine particles of moondust might actually float, ejected from the lunar surface by electrostatic repulsion. This could create a temporary nighttime "atmosphere" of dust. The moondust atmosphere might also gather itself into a sort of diaphanous wind. Drawn by differences in global charge accumulation, floating dust would naturally fly from the strongly negative nightside to the weakly negative dayside."

9 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

Earth creates Lightning With its size of magnetic field correct?

No. I don't think the Earth's magnetic field is strong enough to have much effect on lightning.

[Theredbarron]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

Why do you think this is relevant to the moon's atmosphere?

This is quite interesting (and surprisingly relevant) because it says: "There's growing evidence that fine particles of moondust might actually float, ejected from the lunar surface by electrostatic repulsion. This could create a temporary nighttime "atmosphere" of dust. The moondust atmosphere might also gather itself into a sort of diaphanous wind. Drawn by differences in global charge accumulation, floating dust would naturally fly from the strongly negative nightside to the weakly negative dayside."

No. I don't think the Earth's magnetic field is strong enough to have much effect on lightning.

The static is what I'm thinking may hold it there. Just a thought since the atmosphere is less dense that there would be more room for the magnetic attraction to get through matter. I think that the magnetic field around earth is what generates enough magnetic energy to make static electricity much higher as to cause lightning. Short circuit between polarities of matters static charge.

So another question that I have is what elements are not susceptible to static electricity?

 

[studiot]

17 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

I get that it looks as though a vacuum is suction and that pressure is actually pushing on it

Well I'm very glad about that.

 

But you seem to have succumbed to another popular myth.

 

Static electricity does not interact with magnetism.
That is the province of moving electricity.

 

Nor does static (or moving electricity) directly interact with mechanical pressure except in very specialist circumstances such as tribolectricity or piezoelectricity.

51 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Would you say suction is a pseudo-force like centrifugal force?

Suction can be a useful fiction in calculations, but it is much more limited than centrifugal force and the 'mechanism' or rationale is quite different.

Centrifugal force reduces the magnitude and changes the direction of the gravity experienced by an object on the surface of a planet or moon.
 

[Theredbarron]

2 minutes ago, studiot said:

Well I'm very glad about that.

 

But you seem to have succumbed to another popular myth.

 

Static electricity does not interact with magnetism.
That is the province of moving electricity.

 

Nor does static (or moving electricity) directly interact with mechanical pressure except in very specialist circumstances such as tribolectricity or piezoelectricity.

Except in very special circumstances.

[Strange]

6 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

The static is what I'm thinking may hold it there.

What is "it"? The atmosphere? Why wouldn't gravity hold it there? But static electricity may also play a role. But note that (as described in the articles you linked) the static charge is very variable, both daily and on longer (18 year) cycles.

6 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

Just a thought since the atmosphere is less dense that there would be more room for the magnetic attraction to get through matter.

Magnetism would not have any significant effect on the atmosphere. (And has nothing to do with static electricity.)

6 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

I think that the magnetic field around earth is what generates enough magnetic energy to make static electricity much higher as to cause lightning. Short circuit between polarities of matters static charge.

Are you talking about magnetism or static electricity? (They are different things, you know.)

Magnetism is not responsible for lightning. Have you considered the fact that we get lightning from storm clouds. If it was the magnetic field then they could occur anywhere and anytime.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Strange

[Theredbarron]

Just now, Strange said:

What is "it"? The atmosphere? Why wouldn't gravity hold it there? But static electricity may also play a role. But note that (as described in the articles you linked) the static charge is very variable, both daily and on longer (18 year) cycles. 

The atmosphere varies on the moon as well doesn't it?

[studiot]

9 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

Except in very special circumstances.

Which are?

and which statement is the exception to?

I don't know why you are having so much trouble answering my comments.
You didn't make any answer to my first one that I can find, where I was offereing some interesting relevant information that has only come to light this week.

Edited August 29, 2018 by studiot

[Theredbarron]

13 minutes ago, Strange said:

Magnetism is not responsible for lightning. Have you considered the fact that we get lightning from storm clouds. If it was the magnetic field then they could occur anywhere and anytime.

Are you saying that there is no scientific explanation for lightning? I have one. Theses storm clouds are more dense matter in motion. While said matter is rubbing against itself in this cloud it creates static electricity. When the charge of the cloud or matter in the cloud becomes strong enough in opposition of a nearby polarity it would then discharge its accumulated static electricity as it passes or gets near the other polar charge. Much like when you rub your socks on the floor and you touch someone.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Theredbarron

[Strange]

1 minute ago, Theredbarron said:

Are you saying that there is no scientific explanation for lightning?

Of course there is. 

1 minute ago, Theredbarron said:

Theses storm clouds are more dense matter in motion. While said matter is rubbing against itself in this cloud it creates static electricity.

That is, very crudely, correct. Nothing to do with the Earth’s magnetic field. 

[Theredbarron]

This also explains how it can jump from cloud to cloud by each body having a great enough differential in polar charge.

1 minute ago, Strange said:

Of course there is. 

That is, very crudely, correct. Nothing to do with the Earth’s magnetic field. 

ok so the earth magnetic field is not what I'm going after here. I'm comparing the electrical properties of the moons surface and how it can attract by static electricity. Yes I understand they are different. It still doesn't take away that static electricity attract matter by its electrical properties. Like a balloon having an extra charge and sticking to someone's head. The static that is created on earth would have to overcome the atmospheric resistance to be strong enough for this. 

That would only show that the air has static electrical properties that surround earth. Now I want to compare as to how it gets it on the moon. 

[Strange]

10 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

It still doesn't take away that static electricity attract matter by its electrical properties.

Some matter. It can also repel (see the article you linked to).

But why isn’t gravity enough to explain the atmosphere? That always attracts. And it attracts all matter. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Strange

[Theredbarron]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

Some matter. It can also repel (see the article you linked to).

But why isn’t gravity enough to explain the atmosphere? That always attracts. And it attracts all matter. 

Nature isn't perfect. Couldn't it be so that gravity is the matter and then as it moves and creates this static electrical energy that attracts matter as well thus amplifying the effects of gravity? Totally out on a limb here. 

[Strange]

1 minute ago, Theredbarron said:

Totally out on a limb here. 

I’m glad you saved me the trouble of saying that (although, I might have gone with “incoherent nonsense).

[Moontanman]

2 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

Nature isn't perfect. Couldn't it be so that gravity is the matter and then as it moves and creates this static electrical energy that attracts matter as well thus amplifying the effects of gravity? Totally out on a limb here. 

I think your "limb" broke off a long time ago and you've broken several more on the way down. Why don't you just spell out what you are on about instead of all these goofy leading questions? 

[Phi for All]

14 minutes ago, Theredbarron said:

Nature isn't perfect. Couldn't it be so that gravity is the matter and then as it moves and creates this static electrical energy that attracts matter as well thus amplifying the effects of gravity? Totally out on a limb here. 

This is the perfect moment for you to decide you didn't give gravity enough of a chance to begin with. Your other idea probably made more sense to you, but now it leaves you out on a limb. Take a fresh look at gravity, study it now, and I think you'll find you have new information and insight that will help your understanding.

[studiot]

9 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

I think your "limb" broke off a long time ago and you've broken several more on the way down. Why don't you just spell out what you are on about instead of all these goofy leading questions? 

And why can't we get back on topic?

There are no clouds on the Moon.

If you want to discuss the interaction of gravity with the atmosphere of any solar system body, including the Earth and moon see here

The key phrase is 'scale height'

https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=8dyGW_vNPIjBgAaWkJT4Bw&q=scale+height+atmosphere&oq=scale+height&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0l10.1214.3850.0.5762.12.9.0.3.3.0.154.936.1j7.8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.11.1026...0i131k1j0i3k1.0.y-vytmeRHNY

[Theredbarron]

So I have a job and cant answer everything to your liking. This is speculations and you dont allow it. I didn't say I was right I said I was speculating and looking for answers. 

answers that I can understand

As soon as I bring up something that's argumentative to the norm you just act like you know everything. I did not say this was gravity on this thread. I did say im looking at static electricity and was curios as to the possibility of using it on the moon if the atmospheric conditions are up for it. so yes these are relevant questions even if you cant answer them. Just speculations. 

you guys are the ones that keep bringing up the comparison not me. Not all of you are but more then enough of you are

Has anything ever been weighed at the poles of the moon? just curios