Is Mueller Going Silent?

[Airbrush]

Here it is, Friday, August 31st.  If Mueller is going to issue a progress report on his special investigation into Trump, today is the last day.  Otherwise, the next 2 months are off limits for any actions, indictments, or announcements because it would interfere with the Midterm elections in November.  What do you think?  That means we won't be hearing from Mueller until after the elections.

[Phi for All]

First off, there is no such rule. Second, if there was, today wouldn't be the last day (count 60 days before November 6). Third, I hope, if Mueller has actionable evidence, that he would feel that justice, and informing the American public of his findings, takes precedence over partisan politics.

[Ten oz]

I don't recall any demands for silence prior months prior to the 2016 election when it was Clinton under investigation....hahaha The irony that Republicans are complaining that an investigation into the swaying of an election might sway an election is thick. People from Trump's campaign have already be found or pled guilt. It is a FACT at this point that Trump's campaign broke the law. In what perverse universe should prosecutor be worried about protecting the image of guilt people? 

[Phi for All]

This does show that claiming this bullshit grace period has been effective. The GOP is trying to equate anything they don't want with Russian "interference", lumping our own justice system in the mix and claiming they might "interfere". I don't care what your politics are, if you don't want to know whether or not Trump is a felon and/or a traitor prior to accepting his endorsements for elective offices around the country, then you'd still support him if he was guilty of all the crap many Republicans think Clinton is guilty of. 

[iNow]

The rule is in the justice department code of conduct, and refers specifically not intentionally timing the release of information for political means. This has been de facto interpreted to mean nothing within 2 months of election day, but that's not how it's written. The writing speaks to intent of release and to avoid even the appearance of political motivations.

[Ten oz]

19 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

This does show that claiming this bullshit grace period has been effective. The GOP is trying to equate anything they don't want with Russian "interference", lumping our own justice system in the mix and claiming they might "interfere". I don't care what your politics are, if you don't want to know whether or not Trump is a felon and/or a traitor prior to accepting his endorsements for elective offices around the country, then you'd still support him if he was guilty of all the crap many Republicans think Clinton is guilty of. 

Is there still any question regarding whether or not Trump has broken the law? Obstruction of Justice is already a slam dunk just based on what Trump has already admitted in interviews and pronounced in tweets. 

[Phi for All]

45 minutes ago, iNow said:

The writing speaks to intent of release and to avoid even the appearance of political motivations.

Turnaround is fair play, so now it's ass-biting time. "Appearances" and the status quo have been thrown out the window by Lyin' Swampski McPornfather. He put an end to the normal concerns of the electorate, and instilled in us a desire see through the fakery. I'd rather not let the WH cherry-pick when appearances are important (*cough* McCain *cough*).

Just keep releasing information as it's available, Mr Mueller, we're pretty parched for trustworthiness. I'd rather not find out about Russia when it's too late.

[Ten oz]

Washington lobbyist W. Samuel Patten pleaded guilty Friday to acting as an unregistered foreign lobbyist, and admitted to lying to the Senate Intelligence Committee and funneling a Ukrainian oligarch's money to Donald Trump's Presidential Inaugural Committee.

Patten's plea and cooperation agreementis connected to special counsel Robert Mueller's ongoing investigation into Russian interference in the election and coordination with the Trump campaign -- even apparently reaching into former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort's inner circle in Ukraine.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/31/politics/w-samuel-patten-plea-russia-ukraine/index.html

[iNow]

It seems Patten also illegality secured tickets to Trumps inauguration for multiple Russian nationals. 

[MigL]

Come on...
Start the impeachment process already.
Send Bozo back to the circus ( Hollywood ).

[StringJunky]

I'm now just interested to see how far and for how long Trump can front this all out before he's well and truly scuppered, and even his party can't cover up for him.

[Ten oz]

35 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

I'm now just interested to see how far and for how long Trump can front this all out before he's well and truly scuppered, and even his party can't cover up for him.

Only an election defeat in 2020 will rid us of Trump. Even if Democrats controlled both the House and Senate I doubt they successfully impeach Trump. Democrats have a habit of being over responsive to their critics rather than their base.....Or rather maybe it is more because the Republicans are so good at crying wolf. Look at what happened with James Comey. Republicans had gotten so for up in his business with accusations of bias and demands for more investigation that he ultimately broke protocol and gave a press conference that Clinton was back under investigation days before the election out of fear of how he'd be criticized if he didn't, lol. Seems so silly in retrospect because Comey was going to be tarred and feather regardless. 

[MigL]

I fear you may be right Ten oz.
The impeachment process is just an indictment.
I'm not sure, but Congress has to deliberate the 'charge' for a president to be removed, don't they ?

And I can see D Trump stirring up his base, claiming he is being unlawfully removed from office, and urging protests/riots.
His base doesn't exactly protest peacefully, do they. I don't see anything good happening if he's removed from Office before the end of his term ( other than stopping any additional harm to America and its relations with allies ).

The impeachment alone ( without removal ) would hopefully ensure his defeat in the next election.

[StringJunky]

41 minutes ago, MigL said:

I fear you may be right Ten oz.
The impeachment process is just an indictment.
I'm not sure, but Congress has to deliberate the 'charge' for a president to be removed, don't they ?

And I can see D Trump stirring up his base, claiming he is being unlawfully removed from office, and urging protests/riots.
His base doesn't exactly protest peacefully, do they. I don't see anything good happening if he's removed from Office before the end of his term ( other than stopping any additional harm to America and its relations with allies ).

The impeachment alone ( without removal ) would hopefully ensure his defeat in the next election.

He's already trying to stir things up for November saying there's going to "violence" if the Dems take the Houses.

[Ten oz]

3 hours ago, MigL said:

I'm not sure, but Congress has to deliberate the 'charge' for a president to be removed, don't they ?

Impeachment requires a super majority in the Senate. Even if Democrats won every Senate race up in 2018 they wouldn't have a super majority. It is my belief that Democrats won't impeach Trump out of fear that it would rally his base and help him in 2020. It is an error in my opinion. Like a sports team purposely avoiding scoring opportunities when they are behind because they fear their opponent might run the score up even more. It is nonsensical. To win you got to play to win. Republicans always play to win and as a result are able to dominate every branch of govt without majority national support.

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

He's already trying to stir things up for November saying there's going to "violence" if the Dems take the Houses.

I don't want to be hyperbolic but I wonder if Trump would attempt to shut the govt down and demand re-elections if Republicans lose control over Congress in November. Thus far Trump has basically gotten everything he wanted and has shown no regard for protocol or the law. He a giant bully that throws the weight of the office around indiscriminately and argues that nothing a President does can be legal or checked. He and his supporter treat his power as absolute.  If Democrats win big in Nov. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump claims it was rigged, orders an investigation, and attempts to postpone a new session from beginning. Thing could get really crazy really fast. 

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Impeachment requires a super majority in the Senate. Even if Democrats won every Senate race up in 2018 they wouldn't have a super majority. It is my belief that Democrats won't impeach Trump out of fear that it would rally his base and help him in 2020. It is an error in my opinion. Like a sports team purposely avoiding scoring opportunities when they are behind because they fear their opponent might run the score up even more. It is nonsensical. To win you got to play to win. Republicans always play to win and as a result are able to dominate every branch of govt without majority national support.

I don't want to be hyperbolic but I wonder if Trump would attempt to shut the govt down and demand re-elections if Republicans lose control over Congress in November. Thus far Trump has basically gotten everything he wanted and has shown no regard for protocol or the law. He a giant bully that throws the weight of the office around indiscriminately and argues that nothing a President does can be legal or checked. He and his supporter treat his power as absolute.  If Democrats win big in Nov. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump claims it was rigged, orders an investigation, and attempts to postpone a new session from beginning. Thing could get really crazy really fast. 

We can be sure of one thing: he won't be quiet and will pull whatever dirty trick he can. He's certainly cut from the same cloth as Tayip Erdogan.

[Phi for All]

18 hours ago, Ten oz said:

It is my belief that Democrats won't impeach Trump out of fear that it would rally his base and help him in 2020. It is an error in my opinion.

So much of an obvious error, it makes one wonder if it's intentional. While more liberal than their GOP counterparts, the Democrats in Congress still represent the wealthy over everyone else. This time of chaos, when POTUS is looting the country while running up the deficit, drawing attention away from deals done in the shade, it must be very profitable for those with access to the enormous amounts of cash they've been amassing steadily since the last crash.

How many times have the Democrats let us down recently? Still trying for bipartisanship when it's been shown the Republicans in Congress don't want anything to do with them. I remember being very critical of Bush II for not taking the opportunity to bring us and our allies closer together after 9/11. The Democrats have had SO MANY opportunities to stop Trump, and they've fumbled repeatedly. They haven't been able to successfully discredit someone like Donald Trump, the creepiest man I've ever heard second-grade his way through a simple speech. 

Folks with 1%er wealth can't help but be caught up in the political environment that wealth creates. But obviously we need to have better control over those who wield so much power. The 1% must be held to the same laws, and their huge influence on the lives of the other 99% needs to be channeled to do the most good, not simply make them richer. 

Even though we're seeing more leaders identifying with social democracy, extreme capitalism and thuggish fascism are dominating the news cycles. I worry that Mueller's reasoned, patient, non-sensationalistic approach will be drowned out in the side-show blare. The last thing we need is to remove a pathway to truthful information 60 days before midterm elections. Would a college professor deny students access to research 60 days before midterms?

[Ten oz]

@Phi for All I see the problem having 4 layers:

- First layer is money as your pointed out. Some Democrats are puppets for their wealthy benefactors. 

- Second layer is a type of pretentious fallacy where people on the left believe themselves to be more inherently fair and go out of their way to make concessions as a way of proving  how fair they are. Being viewed as fair is more important than simply being correct.

- Third layer is a focus on not losing rather than a focus on winning. Many Democrats are more preoccupied with what they fear will turn voters against them than they are with what will motive people to vote for them. Take marijuana for example. If wins basically ever time it is on a ballot yet national Democratic candidates still talk around the issue rather than just coming out as pro pot out of fear of backlash and being viewed as soft on crime. Another example was Gay marriage. Back in 2008 both Obama and Clinton were pro civil unions but not gay marriage. It took another couple years to get them publicly on board. 

- Fourth layer is race. The majority of Republicans are white men. In our society white men are our authority figures. They are our Police, Judges, CEOs, Deans, and etc. Society simply doesn't ignore of dismiss their feelings about anything. 

[StringJunky]

I think this is reprehensible:

Quote

US President Donald Trump has accused Attorney General Jeff Sessions of damaging the midterm re-election chances of two Republican members of Congress by prosecuting them.

The justice department's decision to file charges against the men put "easy wins" in doubt, Mr Trump tweeted.

One is accused of insider trading and the other of campaign violations.

The tweet has sparked fresh criticism that Mr Trump is illegally seeking to interfere with the justice system. 

 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45405757

It's nice to see that at least two Republicans. in Sessions and Mueller,  are committed to the principle of law and aren't letting go. Trump's got to go asap.

Edited September 4, 2018 by StringJunky

[Ten oz]

51 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

It's nice to see that at least two Republicans. in Sessions and Mueller,  are committed to the principle of law and aren't letting go. Trump's got to go asap.

Jeff Session is not committed to anything, hahaha. Sessions is just smart enough to know better than to interfere with ongoing investigations being conducted by career prosecutors while himself being investigated. Sessions already lied to the Senate under oath and possibly broken other laws during the 2016 campaign by meeting with Russians. Let's not forget that those lies are the reason he had to recuse himself from the Russian investigation. Session is in survival mode at the moment and regardless of how this all end his political career is finished at a minimum and he's just trying to ensure prison isn't in his future.  

[Airbrush]

So Mueller did not make any progress report before entering the 60-day period before an important midterm election.

However, up to the election there will be plenty of news about Paul Manifort's next trial(s), Michael Cohen flipping, Allen Weisselberg, Woodward's new book "FEAR", the NY Times Op-Ed leaker crisis, etc, etc...…..

[iNow]

The 60 day window, as already noted, is arbitrary and based on norms, not on specific rules. Given how norms are so consistently being broken everyday in our current government, one should not IMO use them as a foundation for any assertions. 

[rangerx]

34 minutes ago, iNow said:

The 60 day window, as already noted, is arbitrary and based on norms, not on specific rules. Given how norms are so consistently being broken everyday in our current government, one should not IMO use them as a foundation for any assertions. 

One one hand, Republicans are demanding Mueller wrap up the investigation. While on the other hand, Trump is hamstringing the investigation by saying he's willing to to testify then not willing to testify or at the very least arbitrarily fabricating contentious rules on the forum and conditions for testimony. Meanwhile, the Republicans are fast tracking a supreme court nominee to thwart Mueller's findings and procedures (no less other authoritarian policies). By the way the hearings are going, it's glaringly obvious Kavanaugh is bought and paid for.

Some suggest that may lead to a constitution crisis, but in reality it already is.

If that's not banana republic politics and law, nothing is.

[StringJunky]

26 minutes ago, rangerx said:

One one hand, Republicans are demanding Mueller wrap up the investigation. While on the other hand, Trump is hamstringing the investigation by saying he's willing to to testify then not willing to testify or at the very least arbitrarily fabricating contentious rules on the forum and conditions for testimony. 

The fastest way to get away from the cops is to co-operate.  An innocent person would, generally, want to get it over and done with as quickly as possible.