Vanessa Marquez - Pointless death?

[DrP]

So she was acting crazy and showing signs of mental illness......   does this warrant the police shooting her to death? In the UK or the EU I am certain she would have been taken into hospital and helped through her mental illness.....  in the USA? - BLAM!  Take that you crazy bitch! That's the end of you. No more troubling your neighbors with crazy shouting. Despicable policing! 

If the gun laws weren't so stupid in that country then the police wouldn't have been so certain that her BB gun was a real one and wouldn't have had to blow her away just to make sure. Fucking ridiculous. I don't expect her family will get compensation for a wrongful shooting  -  it will be justified as self defense because she pulled a BB pistol.  

Poor woman. A pointless and avoidable death of a beautiful but troubled woman. Is this the standard of mental health care in the US?  'Are you OK miss?...  oh no, you're not, shit, you're crazy' - BLAM!  FFS.  Wouldn't have happened in almost any other 1st world country....  I doubt the 'care team' that went to her house would have felt the need to be heavily armed in the first place and they would have had training in how to deal with people that have mental problem.....  and that training wouldn't have involved the use of guns. 

This is another avoidable death that your (the USA) out of date gun laws are responsible for imo. 

Tragic! 

She was born in LA in 1968.....  gone too soon. RIP. 

                                                                 ......                     ........                    ........                   ........              .......... 

Sorry - i was a little shocked and angry when I wrote the above. I wasn't there. Who knows what went on. I think it takes balls to be a police man when you know everyone has a gun - these guys put their life on the line every day and obviously felt their lives were in threat.   Seems so pointless though.  

Edited September 1, 2018 by DrP

[Ten oz]

I think part of the problem is that many people go into law enforcement specifically for excitement. Tv shows and movies show the lifestyle as high speed. Various apparel brands market themselves as tactical and that image has a following. Some people are drawn to that image and imagine themselves as inside an episode of a Police drama. Of course the reality is that police spend most their day writing reports and sitting in court. I think police shootings in the U.S. are self fulfilling prophecies. That a lot of police officers became police officers with the belief they would eventually shoot someone and re-enforce the idea as part of a daily mantra. If you leave the house everyday thinking "today might be the day  I have to kill or be killed"  it takes a toll. Being a police officer can be dangerous but there is a fine line between caution and obsession and I think too many police officers have crossed it.  

[John Cuthber]

A system that lets a woman with mental health problems get access to a gun (of any sort) is a system that will lead to this sort of thing.

[Sensei]

22 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

A system that lets a woman with mental health problems get access to a gun (of any sort) is a system that will lead to this sort of thing.

That was toy, not real one..

 

[StringJunky]

13 minutes ago, Sensei said:

That was toy, not real one..

 

Toy or not, she would still have got shot in the UK. Why would an adult wave a toy gun around unless to make people think they've got a real one.

[DrP]

4 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Toy or not, she would still have got shot in the UK. 

Only if the armed response unit was called. The visit was to check on her mental state - the visitors would not have been armed and wouldn't have expected her to be concealing a firearm in the house. Even if she did get her air pistol out they would have probably realised it was an air pistol before calling the armed response unit.

 

 

[StringJunky]

1 minute ago, DrP said:

Only if the armed response unit was called. The visit was to check on her mental state - the visitors would not have been armed and wouldn't have expected her to be concealing a firearm in the house. Even if she did get her air pistol out they would have probably realised it was an air pistol before calling the armed response unit.

 

 

That's a good point. 

[iNow]

This ties also to the current lack of universal healthcare in the US. Police become our de facto mental health care providers for large portions of the population, and even then lack decent facilities to bring troubled people into. They must regularly choose to ignore, imprison, or shoot. 

[John Cuthber]

1 hour ago, Sensei said:

That was toy, not real one..

 

2 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

access to a gun (of any sort)

(and, for the record, it wasn't a toy, it was a real bb gun.)

Edited September 1, 2018 by John Cuthber

[MigL]

It's just natural selection/social engineering taken to a new extreme...
The police are doing their part to eradicate mental illness from the gene pool in the US.
If you keep caring for your mentally ill, eventually you Brits will be over-run by crazies.

Relax, I'm just being sarcastic.

Edited September 1, 2018 by MigL

[StringJunky]

2 hours ago, MigL said:

It's just natural selection/social engineering taken to a new extreme...
The police are doing their part to eradicate mental illness from the gene pool in the US.
If you keep caring for your mentally ill, eventually you Brits will be over-run by crazies.

Relax, I'm just being sarcastic.

Yeah, in the same spirit, pure capitalism doesn't have the funds or desire to help those in need, so best just 'pop them off'.

[Phi for All]

7 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Yeah, in the same spirit, pure capitalism doesn't have the funds or desire to help those in need, so best just 'pop them off'.

Only if those in need are unpredictable or require guards with advanced training. If those in need are quiet, orderly, and just want to do their jail time, they represent great private investment opportunities in the US. 

[Ten oz]

Was I was a kid in the city I grew a family who'd recently immigrated from China call the police because their teen aged mentally disabled daughter was acting erratically and the parents didn't want her to hurt herself. When the police arrived outside the girl came to the front door hold a knife. The door was open but the mental door screen was closed. The police demanded to girl drop the knife. The girl, who was mentally disabled, didn't speak English. The police shot and killed her through the screen door. It was considered lawful. The girl clearly had a weapon and failed to comply with orders. 

Growing up my fathers always stressed to me to never call the police. He insisted that involving the police always makes a situation worse. As an adult I don't agree with that. There are situations were it is important to have police involvement. However I am not a father with a house full of boys I worry about. 

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Was I was a kid in the city I grew a family who'd recently immigrated from China call the police because their teen aged mentally disabled daughter was acting erratically and the parents didn't want her to hurt herself. When the police arrived outside the girl came to the front door hold a knife. The door was open but the mental door screen was closed. The police demanded to girl drop the knife. The girl, who was mentally disabled, didn't speak English. The police shot and killed her through the screen door. It was considered lawful. The girl clearly had a weapon and failed to comply with orders. 

Growing up my fathers always stressed to me to never call the police. He insisted that involving the police always makes a situation worse. As an adult I don't agree with that. There are situations were it is important to have police involvement. However I am not a father with a house full of boys I worry about. 

I like the Japanese police policy of 'de-escalate not escalate'. They have guns but they will talk first, then use their long sticks, then their gun; in that order. I half suspect many US police are too overweight to chase and can't be bothered to de-escalate.

[Ten oz]

31 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

I like the Japanese police policy of 'de-escalate not escalate'. They have guns but they will talk first, then use their long sticks, then their gun; in that order. I half suspect many US police are too overweight to chase and can't be bothered to de-escalate.

It probably is not practical but I wish all Police Officers had to spend their first year on the job walking the streets as unarmed safety officers. No taser, no pepper spray, no police cruiser, or etc. Just walking the neighborhood, or cycling, wearing a bright yellow vest with a radio and first aid kit. It would familiarize them with the community and they'd learn how to speak to people. I also wish Police Officers had to live in the cities they work in. 

[Phi for All]

13 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

It probably is not practical but I wish all Police Officers had to spend their first year on the job walking the streets as unarmed safety officers. No taser, no pepper spray, no police cruiser, or etc. Just walking the neighborhood, or cycling, wearing a bright yellow vest with a radio and first aid kit. It would familiarize them with the community and they'd learn how to speak to people. I also wish Police Officers had to live in the cities they work in. 

If you can reverse the fill-the-prisons strategy, reduce the number of guns on the street, and stop funneling public social funds through private investment strategists, what you describe here might be possible. As it is now, it's just a toxic environment that feeds on itself. You can't calm someone down by insisting on it at the top of your lungs while pointing a gun at them.

[StringJunky]

2 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

If you can reverse the fill-the-prisons strategy, reduce the number of guns on the street, and stop funneling public social funds through private investment strategists, what you describe here might be possible. As it is now, it's just a toxic environment that feeds on itself. You can't calm someone down by insisting on it at the top of your lungs while pointing a gun at them.

Yes, the instant someone gets tetchy, they are palming their guns. This why I don't want UK street bobbies to have them; it's just easier to wave a gun than tactfully defuse a situation... it's human nature.

[MigL]

I don't think you'll get too many applicants to join the Police services in a lot of US cities if they have to patrol the streets unarmed.

[Ten oz]

24 minutes ago, MigL said:

I don't think you'll get too many applicants to join the Police services in a lot of US cities if they have to patrol the streets unarmed.

Just for there rookie year. There would still be armed police for all over the city they'd be in radio contact with.