B Kavanough and MeToo

[koti]

5 hours ago, iNow said:

Why do you hate due process, Ten Oz?!?

It’s a sad state of affairs, summarized nicely by this song (“A Scary Time for Boys”):

 

 

I don’t know man...is it all that bad for a woman to have a chaperone walking her to her car after 7pm? I mean, when I was 18 I felt really manly when my Grandma used to ask me to walk with her to her car at night. Later in life literally all the women I engaged with whether or not it was relationship wise or on a proffesional or friends level always felt good about having a man by their side in these kind of situations.

Kavanough being „trialed” based on zero evidence with something he allegedly did 36 years ago to some woman is pollitically driven surrealism in my opinion and its straight up injust. Should he be given a very powerful position for life? No...he’s a lying bastard, he lied so much and so badly that it would be a horrible mistake if he was given the position.

There, I said it.

 

[iNow]

37 minutes ago, koti said:

I don’t know man...is it all that bad for a woman to have a chaperone walking her to her car after 7pm?

It’s fine for a woman to want or appreciate a chaperone. It’s not fine for a woman to need one (which is closer to the reality in which we find ourselves).

Even better... it’s the difference between being her chaperone and being her company or companion.

[Ten oz]

1 hour ago, koti said:

Kavanough being „trialed” based on zero evidence with something he allegedly did 36 years ago

Can we stop with the "zero evidence" stuff. Surely Ford's testimony isn't equal to zero. We can debate how much value it alone is but we all should be able to agree it is clearly more than zero. 

[koti]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

It’s fine for a woman to want or appreciate a chaperone. It’s not fine for a woman to need one (which is closer to the reality in which we find ourselves).

Even better... it’s the difference between being her chaperone and being her company or companion.

I think the reality which we find ourselves in right now requires less need for the girl from the video to have a chaperone or a companion compared say, to NYC in the 80’s or the middle ages or any previous era. Plus theres really nothing condenscending or diminishing about a woman requiring a companion or a chaperone and her complaining about it in the song is just only a level short of pouring bleach on  men spreading their legs on the subway.

Edited October 12, 2018 by koti

[Ten oz]

6 minutes ago, koti said:

I think the reality which we find ourselves in right now requires less need for the girl from the video to have a chaperone or a companion compared say, to NYC in the 80’s or the middle ages or any previous era.

One in five women and one in 71 men will be raped at some point in their lives. 91% of victims of rape and sexual assault are female, and nine percent are male. Here

With numbers like that should it really make women rest easy knowing it's better than 80's era Manhattan? By that logic segregation was better for blacks than slavery. Having a 20% chance of being raped it still terrifying. If you know you had a 20% chance of being murdered I bet you'd seriously up your security. 

[iNow]

21 minutes ago, koti said:

I think the reality which we find ourselves in right now requires less need for the girl from the video to have a chaperone or a companion compared say, to NYC in the 80’s or the middle ages or any previous era.

Great. We’ve now covered 2 seconds of a 2+ minute song; one example among a countless many others that remain resonant and part of every females every day. 

[J.C.MacSwell]

Why are we not talking more about how to make women safer while protecting their freedom, than believing them unconditionally after they have been violated when we have failed?

[koti]

9 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

One in five women and one in 71 men will be raped at some point in their lives. 91% of victims of rape and sexual assault are female, and nine percent are male. Here

I think we can all agree that rape is a horrible thing and the ones guilty of it are the worst kind of men possible. 

Having said that, when reading those numbers you posted I can’t get an image out of my mind of reading about Christiano Ronaldo recently being charged with rape by some woman who he allegedly raped 8 years ago.

[mistermack]

2 minutes ago, iNow said:

Great. We’ve now covered 2 seconds of a 2+ minute song;

My message to her is don't worry. 

Be happy.

Well, that's what the original song said. And it was done a lot better. 

[koti]

14 minutes ago, iNow said:

Great. We’ve now covered 2 seconds of a 2+ minute song; one example among a countless many others that remain resonant and part of every females every day. 

Sure, lets cover the part where she sings:

„Yeah Gentlemen band together make some noize, its really tough when your reputation is on the line and any woman you’ve assulted could turn up any time”

I say she’s got some screws missing or at least some are very loose. 

[Ten oz]

21 minutes ago, koti said:

Having said that, when reading those numbers you posted I can’t get an image out of my mind of reading about Christiano Ronaldo recently being charged with rape by some woman who he allegedly raped 8 years ago.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? 

[koti]

9 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? 

You can't seriously believe that money, power, pollitics are not a factor in these high profile rape allegations?

[Ten oz]

3 minutes ago, koti said:

You can't seriously believe that money, power, pollitics are not a factor in these high profile rape allegations?

So you are saying the allegations are all false? Even if that were true you do realize that only the top 1% of the top 1% have anywhere near that level of money. The  situations involving people worth hundreds of millions of dollars has no appreciable impact on 1 in 5 women. What percentage of women are you guessing lie about for money? 

[iNow]

8 minutes ago, koti said:

You can't seriously believe that money, power, pollitics are not a factor in these high profile rape allegations?

They are a factor, but in the opposite direction. 

You seem to be suggesting the women are making things up because then men are in power. The truth is that men in power hurt more women. Yes, these factors are relevant, but not in the way you intend.

Anyway, if 20+ pages of thread hasn’t clarified this by now, I’m uninterested in doing 20 more. 

[CharonY]

2 minutes ago, koti said:

You can't seriously believe that money, power, pollitics are not a factor in these high profile rape allegations?

Ok, so I googled the reports and unless I got something wrong the gist of it is that the accuser filed a police report which resulted in a settlement which did not allow her to speak about the events. Der Spiegel has published reports, initially based on leaked documents and apparently the current lawsuit is aimed at dissolving the initial agreement.

So going back the initial event. Here, the accuser has presumably done all the right things as folks here demanded (file police report, rape kit, not making public accusations). And the reaction is that she must be obviously lying. Notwithstanding the low false accusation rate, what precisely has one to do in order to be taken seriously? 

[iNow]

43 minutes ago, mistermack said:

My message to her is don't worry. 

Let’s instead give her a valid reason not to worry by encouraging men everywhere to improve their behavior and by admonishing / ostracizing those who don’t. 

[CharonY]

1 minute ago, iNow said:

Anyway, if 20+ pages of thread hasn’t clarified this by now, I’m uninterested in doing 20 more. 

Excellent point *sigh*.

[koti]

1 minute ago, Ten oz said:

So you are saying the allegations are all false? Even if that were true you do realize that only the top 1% of the top 1% have anywhere near that level of money. The  situations involving people worth hundreds of millions of dollars has no appreciable impact on 1 in 5 women. What percentage of women are you guessing lie about for money? 

I'm saying what I said which is exactly what I said. Nowhere I stated the allegations in the Kavanaugh case are false.
I don't feel I'm in a position to guess what percentage of women lie or fabricate rape allegations but I'm sure the majority of these cases do not involve hundreds of millions of dollars. 

4 minutes ago, CharonY said:

 *sigh*.

I can relate to that.

[CharonY]

1 hour ago, koti said:

Having said that, when reading those numbers you posted I can’t get an image out of my mind of reading about Christiano Ronaldo recently being charged with rape by some woman who he allegedly raped 8 years ago.

I may have misunderstood it, but it seemed that you were dismissing these allegations outright. If I  did, I apologize.

[koti]

18 minutes ago, iNow said:

Let’s instead give her a valid reason not to worry by encouraging men everywhere to improve their behavior and by admonishing / ostracizing those who don’t. 

In my opinion there is nothing you or anyone else can do to make her feel less worried becasue she likes to be in that spot.

[iNow]

Likes to be in what spot?

[koti]

1 minute ago, CharonY said:

I may have misunderstood it, but it seemed that you were dismissing these allegations outright. If I  did, I apologize.

Obviously I don't have any other insight on the Ronaldo case other than what the media pitches so I can't dismiss the allegations. 

8 minutes ago, iNow said:

Likes to be in what spot?

In a spot where she clutches to her drink at the bar with both hands all night so nobody drops a roofie in it. It’s like I’d need a gun at a bar to defend myself against a potencial shooter. Wait...

 

Never mind.

[mistermack]

11 minutes ago, iNow said:

Let’s instead give her a valid reason not to worry by encouraging men everywhere to improve their behavior and by admonishing / ostracizing those who don’t. 

Wishful thinking should get the job done. 

But in case it doesn't, I still say get the message across to report every incident promptly. I know that a high proportion will not go all the way, but even if they don't, the pattern is established, if it happens again. 

If a woman reports an attempted rape, and there have been two previous alleged assaults, it gives the police a heads up as to who's telling the truth. If nobody reports any of it for years, the police have to work in the dark.

The most memorable case that I remember was Mike Tyson. He'd split with his wife earlier in the year, (amidst allegations of violence) and had a reputation from multiple sources for  unwanted, crude, and sometimes violent advances toward women wherever he went. But up to that point nobody had complained. Going from memory, I believe that Desiree Washington, the woman he raped, wasn't going to report it either, but she was persuaded to by her best friend. She was examined 24 hours after the incident, and Tyson's defence made a big thing of that in court. (god knows what they would have done with 36 years).

Wiki says : 

Partial corroboration of Washington's story came via testimony from Tyson's chauffeur, Virginia Foster, who confirmed Desiree Washington's state of shock after the incident. Further testimony came from Thomas Richardson, the emergency room physician who examined Washington more than 24 hours after the incident and confirmed that Washington's physical condition was consistent with rape.^[71]

Under lead defense lawyer Vincent J. Fuller's direct examination, Tyson claimed that everything had taken place with Washington's full cooperation and he claimed not to have forced himself upon her. When he was cross-examined by lead prosecutor Gregory Garrison, Tyson denied claims that he had misled Washington and insisted that she wanted to have sex with him.^[72] Tyson was convicted on the rape charge on February 10, 1992 after the jury deliberated for nearly 10 hours.^[73]

That case was touch and go, but the evidence was fresh. But if he'd been reported earlier for some of the "unwanted, crude, and sometimes violent advances toward women wherever he went." it's possible that that rape might never have taken place.

On the other hand, who can doubt that if Desiree Washington had done nothing, he would have carried on raping? Or even a lot worse. 

[iNow]

Page 23...

[MigL]

Oh come on, INow…
Let me bask in the glory of finally starting a topic which  has lasted more than a page.