Holograms

[PrimalMinister]

A hologram works by having the whole image embedded in every part.

In games programming there is a similar idea called 'tile based worlds'. For example, to create a chess board you create a single tile with all possible combinations then just repeat it 64 times.

Is it worthy idea, an innovation, in applying these principles to the physics of the universe, or has someone already done this?

Just for example, saying the universe is composed of mini-universes that just go through a big bang/heat death cycle billions of times a second, creating not the whole universe but just a small part.

[Itoero]

7 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

 

Is it worthy idea, an innovation, in applying these principles to the physics of the universe, or has someone already done this?

Yes, many people did that.

[PrimalMinister]

1 minute ago, Itoero said:

Yes, many people did that.

CAn you tell me a bit about it please?

[Ghideon]

5 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

Just for example, saying the universe is composed of mini-universes that just go through a big bang/heat death cycle billions of times a second, creating not the whole universe but just a small part.

I do not really follow the idea (yet). Short question that may clarify for me; Big Bang is about how universe went from a hot dense state to less dense and cooler. Heat death is even less dense and cooler. How does the mini universes "keep their size"? To me the Big Bang -> heat death analogy seems to suggest that the mini universes expands, not a cyclic process.

 

 

[Strange]

20 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

Is it worthy idea, an innovation, in applying these principles to the physics of the universe, or has someone already done this?

It is an old idea. Many people have (and are) trying to build models based on this sort of thing. None have worked yet. (And you are unable to build a model, so you might be better reading up on some of the science that has been done, instead of making things up.)

21 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

Just for example, saying the universe is composed of mini-universes that just go through a big bang/heat death cycle billions of times a second, creating not the whole universe but just a small part.

The universe has cooled from a hot dense state over 14 billion years. How can that be compressed to a billionth of a second? (Note that asking the same question in different threads will not get you different answers. And doesn't give you an excuse to avoid answering questions.)

[PrimalMinister]

6 minutes ago, Strange said:

None have worked yet.

Please explain more thanks.

[studiot]

35 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

In games programming there is a similar idea called 'tile based worlds'. For example, to create a chess board you create a single tile with all possible combinations then just repeat it 64 times.

Is it worthy idea, an innovation, in applying these principles to the physics of the universe, or has someone already done this?

This can't possibly be right, unless you are misusing the phrase all possible combinations.

So please explain exactly what you mean by this.

Edited September 24, 2018 by studiot

[Strange]

1 minute ago, PrimalMinister said:

Please explain more thanks.

Sigh. Is it worth it. I have provided references to some of these before. I don't think you ever read any of the information provided. You just spend your time thinking of different ways of asking the same question. 

OK. Stephen Wolfram wrote an entire book on the subject, initially claiming that this would be the theory of everything (sound familiar). I think he has moved away from that position a bit and now just claiming that it could be a new way to look at things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Wolfram#A_New_Kind_of_Science

Then there are many attempts to combine GR and quantum theory, which often involve splitting space into individual "cells". For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_dynamical_triangulation

Experiments have been done to try and detect any "grannies" of space and so far it appears to be continuous.

[PrimalMinister]

Look, I am aware of current science, but its story is basically big bang/heat death, and that its, its pretty final. Do you have anything more to say on the matter?

[studiot]

2 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

Look, I am aware of current science, but its story is basically big bang/heat death, and that its, its pretty final. Do you have anything more to say on the matter?

 

I asked you a simple straightforward question.

 

Are you still refusing to answer?

 

53 minutes ago, studiot said:

This can't possibly be right, unless you are misusing the phrase all possible combinations.

So please explain exactly what you mean by this.

 

[Ghideon]

54 minutes ago, studiot said:

This can't possibly be right, unless you are misusing the phrase all possible combinations.

Good catch. In my initial response above I was biased by background in computing where I think the answer is something like: 
"All possible combinations" means empty white tile and empty black tile plus each chess piece, black and white, on a white or a black tile.
2 empty + 6 types of piceces x 2 colors x 2 tile colors = 2+24=26 different tiles. (quick calculation, may be wrong)

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Ghideon
grammar & cross post w studiot

[PrimalMinister]

6 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

"All possible combinations" means empty white tile and empty black tile plus each chess piece, black and white, on a white or a black tile.

Yes, that is right, and there are 64 tiles. Therefore you put all the possible 26 combinations in one tile, and just repeat it.

[Strange]

14 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

Look, I am aware of current science

Then why did you ask for more information?

14 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

but its story is basically big bang/heat death, and that its, its pretty final

There are many more variations than that. The universe could have emerged from a previous universe. It could be one of many. It may be unique. It may be infinitely old. It could have been created from a false vacuum. It could have been created by a black hole in another universe. It could end in a heat death. Or restart. Or ...

16 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

Do you have anything more to say on the matter?

What do you want to know?

[studiot]

13 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

Good catch. In my initial response above I was biased by background in computing where I think the answer is something like: 
"All possible combinations" means empty white tile and empty black tile plus each chess piece, black and white, on a white or a black tile.
2 empty + 6 types of piceces x 2 colors x 2 tile colors = 2+24=26 different tiles. (quick calculation, may be wrong)

 

It's more than this.

1)

If all possible combinations is a list of all the pieces that could be on a 'template' square,

Not all squares have the same template.

For instance there are 8 squares that cannot be accessed a black pawn and 56 that can.

2) Some of the posiibilities are contingent upon what is upon the other squares.

For instance there is only one white king.

So his presence on any square is contingent upon his not being upon any other.

3) Finally, there are only 64 squares on a chessboard.

So if you take a template square and repeat it 64 times you will have 65 squares.

Scientists pay attention to detail!

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by studiot

[PrimalMinister]

4 minutes ago, Strange said:

What do you want to know?

Well why are you here on my threads? I can't tell if you are being sincere or have come to the conclusion I am a crackpot and are having a bit of fun, I kinda suspect the latter but it could be a mix of both. I want to know how the universe came out of nothing, I want to know how the universe came to compressed into a point, what was constraining the universe prior to the big bang, why did it stop constraining the universe suddenly and let it start evolving. Wheres the reasons, wheres the logic?

 

Look, say I release my theory in a month, do you want to talk about it in the mean time, or shall I just stay off the forums until I release it?

[Strange]

7 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

I want to know how the universe came out of nothing

We don't know. We don't even know that it did. There is no evidence for that. Attempts to combine quantum theory and GR suggest it could be infinitely old. But we don't know. We need more evidence. 

You need to accept that "don't know" is sometimes the best scientific answer we have.

7 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

Look, say I release my theory in a month, do you want to talk about it in the mean time, or shall I just stay off the forums until I release it?

How can we talk about it if you don't tell us what it is. So it might be best to wait until you are ready to present it.

I hope that includes the maths, the quantitative predictions and a comparison of those with the observational evidence ...

9 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

why are you here on my threads?

Pretty much the same reason as I contribute to any threads. I am interested to know what your theory is. I would like to help you learn. I will correct your errors. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Strange

[PrimalMinister]

28 minutes ago, Strange said:

You need to accept that "don't know" is sometimes the best scientific answer we have

Yes, this is what I have sensed through our conversations, I think you want me to accept that, and that is the key, you want me to believe, that we don't know answers when I do. I think my time on here for the minute is coming to a close, but I want to leave you with this. The consequence of my theory is that the universe is eternal, spatially infinte, immortal, this is the paradigm shift. It is going to have a profound effect on the world because this theory is going to unite people around the world in joy at the simple beauty of the truth of science. And to celebrate this unity I am going to suggest the introduction of a new global calender. This calender will have new names for the days of the week and the months of the year and everyone, regardless of what language they speak will use the same words for the days and months, so in a very small way we are all speaking the same language. And the year, that will go back to year one and instead of saying its 2018 years since the birth of Christ we will say it is 1 year since the dawn of eternity. I have thought about this alot, the world is going to become a profoundly different place, religion I am afraid doesn't have much of a place. Can you imagine that (remembeing that imagination is more important that knowledge), no more Mondays because Monday is now called something else?

Edited September 24, 2018 by PrimalMinister

[Ghideon]

 

33 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

you want me to believe, that we don't know answers when I do

I do not know what it is that you say that you know since you never tell what your secret knowledge is. 

33 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

Can you imagine that (remembeing that imagination is more important that knowledge), no more Mondays because Monday is now called something else?

I can imagine quite a few fitting words for some mondays I've experienced in the past and it has nothing to do with your "theory".

 

1 hour ago, studiot said:

For instance there is only one white king.

Nice! I see I should have added more details! Going of topic: the tiles in my example was meant to consist only of the necessary graphical variations needed to draw the board. Rules, such as max number of white kings, are not part of the tiles. 

1 hour ago, studiot said:

Scientists pay attention to detail!

And some old game programmers seem to lack attention to detail

Edited September 24, 2018 by Ghideon
clarity

[studiot]

11 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

And some old game programmers seem to lack attention to detail

Yeah, I'm not contesting your offering because you must be as much in the dark about what PrimalMinister's ill formed phrase means as I am.

But I am certain that whatever it means, replicating it 64 times cannot possible produce a valid chessboard.

 

As a matter of interest using the chessboard to explain probability, leading to an explanation of entropy is a good solid explanation; there are many spurious explanations about.

[swansont]

41 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

The consequence of my theory is that the universe is eternal, spatially infinte, immortal, this is the paradigm shift. It is going to have a profound effect on the world because this theory is going to unite people around the world in joy at the simple beauty of the truth of science.

!

Moderator Note

There is no utility is discussing your "theory" (what you have shared falls well short of being a theory) since you refuse to share it. This is a matter of "put up or shut up"

As far as the subject matter of this thread is concerned, there is a huge gap between being able to create a few matrices (or a multidimensional matrix) representing a chess board, and modeling the universe. So you would need to be much more specific when you inquire about modeling the universe in this way. Focus your attention on that, rather than reiterating your previous utterances for the Nth time.

 

Quote

And to celebrate this unity I am going to suggest the introduction of a new global calender. This calender will have new names for the days of the week and the months of the year and everyone, regardless of what language they speak will use the same words for the days and months, so in a very small way we are all speaking the same language. And the year, that will go back to year one and instead of saying its 2018 years since the birth of Christ we will say it is 1 year since the dawn of eternity. I have thought about this alot, the world is going to become a profoundly different place, religion I am afraid doesn't have much of a place. Can you imagine that (remembeing that imagination is more important that knowledge), no more Mondays because Monday is now called something else?

!

Moderator Note

More off-topic nonsense. Stow it.

 

[Strange]

5 minutes ago, studiot said:

As a matter of interest using the chessboard to explain probability, leading to an explanation of entropy is a good solid explanation; there are many spurious explanations about.

And, because I don't want to discourage PrimalMinister, it may be worth pointing out that dividing space into cells is commonly used in many types of simulations. Most relevantly for this thread, when modelling GR as in black hole mergers and so on.

[studiot]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

And, because I don't want to discourage PrimalMinister, it may be worth pointing out that dividing space into cells is commonly used in many types of simulations. Most relevantly for this thread, when modelling GR as in black hole mergers and so on.

Indeed, it's called finite element analysis if done formally and can be a very powerful  calculation technique.

Edited September 24, 2018 by studiot

[PrimalMinister]

Ok, so the universe comes out of nothing and laws of the universe come out of nothing? There has to be some sort of foundation upon which everything is based, it can't just arbitarily exist, there has to be a logic behind it all. Saying we dont know something basically means we don't have all the facts, if we don't have all the facts, its opinion. I want to share my theory but you can't seem to agree with me on some of the basics because you are so highly opinionated. You seem to want to push me to accept the big bang/heat death by preaching the gospel of the expanding universe at me, I have read it, I know what it says. It says we don't know.

[Strange]

6 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

Ok, so the universe comes out of nothing and laws of the universe come out of nothing?

There is no evidence for that. 

7 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

Saying we dont know something basically means we don't have all the facts, if we don't have all the facts, its opinion.

Correct. But it isn't an opinion: it is a fact that we don't know everything.

7 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

I want to share my theory

No you don't. Or you would have done so.

8 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

You seem to want to push me to accept the big bang/heat death by preaching the gospel of the expanding universe at me, I have read it, I know what it says. It says we don't know.

We know, with a high degree of certainty, that the universe expanding and cooling (ie the Big Bang model). It is true there is a lot we don't know, but that does not undermine what we do know.

I don't care whether you accept it or not. As long as you realise that rejecting the Big Bang model is counter to all the evidence (what you call "facts") and is therefore an irrational opinion.

And I don't believe you do know what the theory says or you wouldn't keep saying "the universe came from nothing" because that is just an opinion, not based on evidence.

[swansont]

12 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

Ok, so the universe comes out of nothing and laws of the universe come out of nothing? There has to be some sort of foundation upon which everything is based, it can't just arbitarily exist, there has to be a logic behind it all. Saying we dont know something basically means we don't have all the facts, if we don't have all the facts, its opinion. I want to share my theory but you can't seem to agree with me on some of the basics because you are so highly opinionated. You seem to want to push me to accept the big bang/heat death by preaching the gospel of the expanding universe at me, I have read it, I know what it says. It says we don't know.

!

Moderator Note

There's really not much to do here when you accuse everyone else of being highly opinionated, and yet all you are doing is asserting your own opinion that there must be a pre-existing foundation. 

Your theory will be judged on how well it explains what we observe, and whether we can make predictions of things not yet observed, and then test that.