A Question for Trump or "Ford and the Chicken Tax"

[studiot]

The BBC reports how Ford is getting around US import tax regulations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45875405

 

Is what Ford are doing good business or 'sharp practice' ?

Edited October 18, 2018 by studiot

[StringJunky]

3 hours ago, studiot said:

The BBC reports how Ford is getting around US import tax regulations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45875405

 

Is what Ford are doing good business or 'sharp practice' ?

It's tax evasion. The acid test is intent and the intent is to evade. It's a trojan horse type of fraud.

Edited October 18, 2018 by StringJunky

[dimreepr]

39 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

It's tax evasion. The acid test is intent and the intent is to evade. It's a trojan horse type of fraud.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-uk-must-bin-unjustified-food-standards-for-brexit-trade-deal-2018-10?fbclid=IwAR0AcebTBcX70yJMYK3Yyj1dRShRjAZNnnngB6xKRnS-Qr7cD2GCDGZo1jY

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-uk-must-bin-unjustified-food-standards-for-brexit-trade-deal-2018-10?fbclid=IwAR0AcebTBcX70yJMYK3Yyj1dRShRjAZNnnngB6xKRnS-Qr7cD2GCDGZo1jY

They can shove it...  

[Phi for All]

It looks like increasing the possibility of poisoning UK citizens is worth some extra profit to someone. In the US, your health is an unjustified excuse for regulation. 

This insistence on high standards for food is part of the reason why you spend so little on healthcare, I hope you realize. It's distinctly un-American, and I can see why it irritates our president.

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

It looks like increasing the possibility of poisoning UK citizens is worth some extra profit to someone. In the US, your health is an unjustified excuse for regulation. 

This insistence on high standards for food is part of the reason why you spend so little on healthcare, I hope you realize. It's distinctly un-American, and I can see why it irritates our president.

I didn't realise, until CharonY alluded to it, that regulations are the enemy of profit.

Edited October 18, 2018 by StringJunky

[John Cuthber]

The Brexiteers call it "taking back control".

[Phi for All]

13 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

I didn't realise, until CharonY alluded to it, that regulations are the enemy of profit.

It's all in the perspective, imo. Plenty of companies have very successfully used adherence to strict standards as a selling point.

In my experience, the corporations lobbying for relaxed regs or working out ways to avoid taxes treat the process like any other opportunity for profit. They not only want to cut down on staff needed for federal standards, they also want to use cheaper means to make what they sell, and avoid all other costs at all costs. It's our fault if we continue to let them do it.

Trump, however, is probably defending American maggots and rat hair as a professional courtesy.

[John Cuthber]

2 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

It's our fault if we continue to let them do it.

I am being robbed of the opportunity to choose. The proposed action includes the removal of labeling which would let me know if my food is made to a "rat hair free" standard.

[Phi for All]

2 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

I am being robbed of the opportunity to choose. The proposed action includes the removal of labeling which would let me know if my food is made to a "rat hair free" standard.

When you can't boycott the products in question, you have to vote for politicians who have higher standards and will reflect that in the regulations they impose. That's where Americans fail. Most of us want better consumer protection, but the main party representatives throw us to the wealth extremists who want to remove any roadblocks to their investment opportunities.

Apparently, maggots, roach droppings, and rat hair have a long tradition in American food processing. This obviously appeals to the current conservative US leadership, and they want to share that with all of Britain.

[Sensei]

Taxes and import tariffs are not paid by importing company, but by regular customers (US-customers in the OP case).. as they have to pay difference in price..

Some politicians are lying people (or not knowing what they are saying), honestly saying that they just increased import tariffs on goods... and these people starts clapping their hands.. apparently without even understanding what they just said to them (that they will have to pay more for these goods).. That's example of that everybody lost mind on this planet..

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Sensei

[iNow]

Tariffs on others are taxes on ourselves 

[rangerx]

Canada scrapped the tariff on milk, but Americans still use bovine growth hormones that are banned here. They must include that on the label.

Americans can now ship it here, but that doesn't mean we have to buy it.

When it comes to milk, most folks buy local. Cheese and other milk products not so much, but I wouldn't buy or ingest any of it anyway. Pretty much anyone else I know feel the same way.

I seriously doubt Trump's hissy fit about accessing the Canadian milk market will do anything to improve the American situation other than adding to partisan white noise. No less how America continues to fuck us over on softwood lumber, automobiles, water, hydro electric power, oil and a whole host of other products where hypocrisy looms large. Like socializing the National Hockey League, agriculture and ranching... to name a few of many.

[studiot]

9 hours ago, Phi for All said:

 Most of us want better consumer protection, but the main party representatives throw us to the wealth extremists who want to remove any roadblocks to their investment opportunities.

 

I agree that is the case in the UK as well.

But further regulation or deregulation appears almost irrelevant here as there is precious little enforcement.

We have an ever expanding army of 'Regulators' (Nothing like those in the cowboy west of old) who seem to see their vastly overpaid jobs as being the organisation of the punters into an orderly queue holding their chequebooks for the industry to fleece.

Edited October 19, 2018 by studiot

[Silvestru]

22 hours ago, studiot said:

The BBC reports how Ford is getting around US import tax regulations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45875405

Is what Ford are doing good business or 'sharp practice' ?

I think you should also look into the "Pantent Box" special tax regime where companies pay little or no tax on intellectual property. 

I think this Patent Box practice is much more tax evasive in both revenue and degeneracy.  

It's always a pleasure to read your topics and apologies if high-jacking studiot but I found this concept similar.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Silvestru

[studiot]

It's perfectly on topic here.

 I welcome contributions the broaden horizons around the topic.

Especially when most folks seem to want to chew the chicken.

The article I posted was about avoiding taxes on manufactured motor cars.

Edited October 19, 2018 by studiot

[Ten oz]

The whole situation is bizarre to me. In the U.S. among Conservatives taxes and regulations are synonymous govt overreach which burdens businesses and negatively impacts employment. Yet U.S. citizens are among the most heavily policed policed in the world with the U.S. boasting the largest prison population of any nation. Within the U.S. psyche people can imagine the way food labels may or not have an appreciable impact on the hourly wage of a hand full of factory workers yet can't seem to do the same for how put someone in prison for a few years over a non-violent crime might demonstratively have a downward impact on the person's family or community. The same politicians who campaign against regulation, bureaucracy, and govt overreach also somehow get away with also campaigning on Law & Order, capital punishment, and more prisons. It is nuts. Govt regulation into the lives of individuals is championed while simultaneous ridiculed for industry. If a man dates a woman and ends up killing her capital punishment is an option, applauded by millions. It a business produces a product that a person buys and it ends up killing them lawsuits are an option but broadly viewed in negative terms and people will argue that no one is was forced to buy product. Here in the U.S. it seems fairly obvious that we value businesses more than people. 

[studiot]

8 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Yet U.S. citizens are among the most heavily policed policed in the world with the U.S. ............................The same politicians who campaign against regulation, bureaucracy, and govt overreach also somehow get away with also campaigning on Law & Order, capital punishment, and more prisons... Govt regulation into the lives of individuals is championed while simultaneous ridiculed for industry. ....................Here in the U.S. it seems fairly obvious that we value businesses more than people.

You seem to have gathered the gist of my thread very well. +1

I am frequently suprised how often officials in the US are reported on our news ordering people about in a manner not acceptable over here, (eg imposing curfews), considering the US constitution and reputation as 'the Land of the Free'.

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by studiot

[Ten oz]

14 minutes ago, studiot said:

It's perfectly on topic here.

 I welcome contributions the broaden horizons around the topic.

Especially when most folks seem to want to chew the chicken.

The article I posted was about avoiding taxes on manufactured motor cars.

The President himself during a debate in 2016 said "that makes me smart" when it was pointed out that he hasn't paid taxes in years. Taxes being civic responsibility  isn't a concept which is taught or encouraged in the U.S., least not that I have ever experienced. Rather success is what's pushed. The greatest thing anyone can strive to be in the U.S. is successful. Those who cut in line, cut a corner, find a loophole, and etc for getting ahead are considered clever and ambitious is positive terms. Trade is just another item to be manipulated for advantage. I don't get the sense that people want restricted trade or the govt overly involved in trade but rather like the idea that someone is attempting to manipulate trade in a way which potentially could rig things in their favor. whether it works out or not millions seem eager to roll the dice. 

 

[Silvestru]

Of course health is the most important thing here but I think what we don't realise is that Multinationals follow the path of least tax resistance.

If your country doesn't have serious tax cuts in some sector then you will have no new businesses setting up camp there. The new game is, if you want a slice of Corporate money pie you have to be corrupt/dirty have some arrangements.

Look at Ireland, so many multinationals use it's schemes and it's working great for Ireland as well. More well paid jobs, higher GDP.

No one is even getting fined or fired for this stuff.

So while I agree that the life of one person is invaluable, I pay attention to this new way of working as a close second. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprechaun_economics

Quote

 

On the 12 July 2016 at 11am GMT, the Central Statistics Office (Ireland) posted a data revision showing that 2015 Irish GDP data had risen by 26.3 per cent^[a] and 2015 Irish GNP had risen by 18.7 per cent.^[1] Twenty four minutes later, at 11.24am GMT, Nobel-prize winning economist Paul Krugman responded to the data-release:

Leprechaun economics: Ireland reports 26 percent growth! But it doesn't make sense. Why are these in GDP?

— Paul Krugman, 12 July 2016^[2]

Over the 12–13 July 2016, the term "leprechaun economics" was quoted widely by the Irish and international media when discussing Ireland's revised 26.3% 2015 GDP growth rate.^{[24][25][26][27][28][27][29][30]} "Leprechaun economics" become a label for the Irish 2015 GDP 26.3% growth rate, and used by a diverse range of sources.^[31]

 

 

[studiot]

Don't be fooled.

The Irish boom is not as rosy as it looks/looked even a couple of years ago.

And Eire is being taken to the European Court for billions of euros of back (EU) taxes or fines for 'illegal' subsidy methods.

 

But I agree that Big Business, particularly international Big Business, can (and therefore does) get away with far too much.

[dimreepr]

Everyone in the west forgets that its tax, that built everything, that made the west great; we reap what we sow...

regulations are taxing for a reason...

[swansont]

9 hours ago, Sensei said:

Taxes and import tariffs are not paid by importing company, but by regular customers (US-customers in the OP case).. as they have to pay difference in price..

If consumers buy the product, as opposed to buying a domestic competitor's. Which is part of the point of a tariff — to protect domestic industry.

But the company does pay it, strictly speaking. It just passes the cost along.

In Ford's case, there is a small mitigating effect, in that they have to pay workers to modify the vehicles, which increases employment and taxes paid, ever so slightly. Obviously, that's cheaper than paying the import tariff, or they wouldn't do it.

 

[Raider5678]

1 hour ago, studiot said:

I am frequently suprised how often officials in the US are reported on our news ordering people about in a manner not acceptable over here, (eg imposing curfews), considering the US constitution and reputation as 'the Land of the Free'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you live in England.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but England imposes curfews as well after the passage of the crime and disorders act.

While it's True England doesn't impose them nearly as often, England has 54 million people. The United States of American has 330 million. There's an obvious difference in population.

 

[Ten oz]

10 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you live in England.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but England imposes curfews as well after the passage of the crime and disorders act.

While it's True England doesn't impose them nearly as often, England has 54 million people. The United States of American has 330 million. There's an obvious difference in population.

 

Per 100,000 people in the U.S. 737 are in prison compared to just 148 in England. What does total population size have to do with anything? India has 4x the population of the U.S. but just 80 per 100,000 in prison. The U.S. far exceeds other nations in the percentage of citizens our criminal justice system imprisons, Here. Also there doesn't appear to be any correlation internationally to population size and that percentage.

In the U.S. conservatives support and encourage laws restricting individuals while simultaneously ideologically opposing the same for corporations.