Trump's Book of Hitler Quotes

[J.C.MacSwell]

8 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

I think people often feel obligated to defend things which hit close to home. 

...which keeps them off balance...sweating the small stuff and pointing at it, while missing the big picture...enabling the very thing they despise.

[Raider5678]

38 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I don't understand why you would defend the liars,

Have you ever been wrong about something before?

If someone called you a liar for being wrong, would you be upset at me if I pointed out that everyone is wrong sometimes?

 

Regardless of the situation that got the person there mentally, if they say something they think is the truth I don't think it makes them a liar.

It makes them wrong.

 

And with that, you're taking what I said the wrong way.

I'm not saying "I would defend the liars."

I am saying "I don't think being wrong makes them a liar."

And as such, I'd defend them from being accused of lying if I knew they were simply wrong and didn't know they were wrong.

[Phi for All]

1 minute ago, Raider5678 said:

Have you ever been wrong about something before?

If someone called you a liar for being wrong, would you be upset at me if I pointed out that everyone is wrong sometimes?

 

Regardless of the situation that got the person there mentally, if they say something they think is the truth I don't think it makes them a liar.

It makes them wrong.

 

And with that, you're taking what I said the wrong way.

I'm not saying "I would defend the liars."

I am saying "I don't think being wrong makes them a liar."

And as such, I'd defend them from being accused of lying if I knew they were simply wrong and didn't know they were wrong.

Regardless of the situation, really? The jocks you talked about didn't listen in class, actively disrupted it, then said "stupid stuff about the subject later". They didn't learn about it, then made up stuff to bash it, which you acknowledged was willfully ignorant, but somehow the stuff they made up willfully wasn't lies? I see now we probably will never agree about matters of integrity, especially wrt Trump.

12 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

...which keeps them off balance...sweating the small stuff and pointing at it, while missing the big picture...enabling the very thing they despise.

I'm very sorry you see Trump's willful ignorance as "small stuff". To me, it defines him and what he's doing to our country. I don't understand how you think holding his actions up to the light enables him.

[Ten oz]

19 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I think it's blowback from an active effort by a lot of corrupt, older alpha male types to glamorize ruthless, extremely aggressive behavior in their business and personal lives. Liars can be forgiven, seemingly, as long as they make a lot of money while they lie (bankers really good at corruption almost never go to jail). They happily embrace fascism if it gives them an edge to exploit. They object to Trump until they see the gaps he's widening in the sheep's defenses that will allow these wolves more access, and now they also want to hail the only man who can possibly fix things. 

It is a perversion of capitalism where making money automatically makes one good. 

[Raider5678]

10 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

but somehow the stuff they made up willfully wasn't lies?

There is a difference between making stuff up and answering a question wrong, which is what I was implying previously.

I.E. teacher asks them a question and they answer it the wrong way.

[J.C.MacSwell]

14 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

 

I'm very sorry you see Trump's willful ignorance as "small stuff". To me, it defines him and what he's doing to our country. I don't understand how you think holding his actions up to the light enables him.

I don't consider paying attention to Trump's "lie # 1,473,986" at the expense of focusing on the issues to be worthwhile. His contempt for everyone but himself and looseness with the facts and the truth is already well defined. Anything additional in that regard is in fact "small stuff", and focusing on it leads away from the bigger picture.

Edited November 1, 2018 by J.C.MacSwell

[Phi for All]

12 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

There is a difference between making stuff up and answering a question wrong, which is what I was implying previously.

So when Trump makes up stuff when he's cornered, like he did about trade when talking with Justin Trudeau, do you think he was answering a question wrong, or do you think making stuff up you know isn't true might qualify as lying?

9 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I don't consider paying attention to Trump's "lie # 1,473,986" at the expense of focusing on the issues to be worthwhile. His contempt for everyone but himself and looseness with the facts and the truth is already well defined. Anything additional in that regard is in fact "small stuff", and focusing on it leads away from the bigger picture.

So well defined, in fact, that it has desensitized a great deal of people wrt how bad lying daily is for a POTUS. The bigger picture is that considering his lack of integrity to be "small stuff" is going to actually be what enables him to become the despicable fascist the OP insinuates. 

[J.C.MacSwell]

12 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

So when Trump makes up stuff when he's cornered, like he did about trade when talking with Justin Trudeau, do you think he was answering a question wrong, or do you think making stuff up you know isn't true might qualify as lying?

So well defined, in fact, that it has desensitized a great deal of people wrt how bad lying daily is for a person in power. The bigger picture is that considering his lack of integrity to be "small stuff" is going to actually be what enables him to become the despicable fascist the OP insinuates. 

Who is making that claim? His lack of integrity is huge. That was clear before he ran for President. It is a huge part of why he should not be...yet there he is. Why not address why he got there, rather than focusing on what everyone already knows? If anyone deserves to lose this upcoming election more than the extreme left Democrats (don't read that as all Democrats)...it is him...but his name isn't on the ballot.

Edited November 1, 2018 by J.C.MacSwell

[StringJunky]

43 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

So when Trump makes up stuff when he's cornered, like he did about trade when talking with Justin Trudeau, do you think he was answering a question wrong, or do you think making stuff up you know isn't true might qualify as lying?

So well defined, in fact, that it has desensitized a great deal of people wrt how bad lying daily is for a POTUS. The bigger picture is that considering his lack of integrity to be "small stuff" is going to actually be what enables him to become the despicable fascist the OP insinuates. 

What JC is saying is that it's a waste of focus looking for more lies. By now, one should know that tap of shit is running freely without looking for any more. It's a distraction from what could be done to stop it.

[Phi for All]

8 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

What JC is saying is that it's a waste of focus looking for more lies. By now, one should know that tap of shit is running freely without looking for any more. It's a distraction from what could be done to stop it.

And I'm not talking about looking for more, I'm talking about NOT being numb to any of them, to demand better from the POTUS and the rest of our leadership. I feel many people are now treating his lies as par for the course, and THAT is what I think is dangerous. Trump has created an atmosphere where normally intelligent people are content to point out his lies while justifying them with their support of what he does that they like. He gets away with murder because conservatives don't like the people he's killing anyway, and I think there's a LOT of historical references to the dangers of this.

How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think. -- Adolph Hitler

[StringJunky]

1 minute ago, Phi for All said:

And I'm not talking about looking for more, I'm talking about NOT being numb to any of them, to demand better from the POTUS and the rest of our leadership. I feel many people are now treating his lies as par for the course, and THAT is what I think is dangerous. Trump has created an atmosphere where normally intelligent people are content to point out his lies while justifying them with their support of what he does that they like. He gets away with murder because conservatives don't like the people he's killing anyway, and I think there's a LOT of historical references to the dangers of this.

I agree that his MO is pernicious. As an example of more pressing priority, Republicans are trying to make it as difficult as possible for that demographic that is likely to vote Dem to vote at all in this mid-term. In Dodge City, they moved the polling station 4 miles further away from the majority Hispanic population. It is stuff like this that needs to be acted against.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-suppression/ahead-of-u-s-elections-fears-of-voter-suppression-and-efforts-to-fight-back-idUSKCN1N64G0

 

[J.C.MacSwell]

17 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

And I'm not talking about looking for more, I'm talking about NOT being numb to any of them, to demand better from the POTUS and the rest of our leadership. I feel many people are now treating his lies as par for the course, and THAT is what I think is dangerous. Trump has created an atmosphere where normally intelligent people are content to point out his lies while justifying them with their support of what he does that they like. He gets away with murder because conservatives don't like the people he's killing anyway, and I think there's a LOT of historical references to the dangers of this.

How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think. -- Adolph Hitler

It is not a matter of being numb to it. You are like chicken little running around yelling "the sky is falling". Except in this case the sky has already fallen and is clearly on the ground...I'm saying "what do we do now?"

[CharonY]

5 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

It is not a matter of being numb to it. You are like chicken little running around yelling "the sky is falling". Except in this case the sky has already fallen and is clearly on the ground...I'm saying "what do we do now?"

Vote?

[StringJunky]

4 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Vote?

And they are doing their best to prevent those opposing doing so.

[Phi for All]

4 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

It is not a matter of being numb to it. You are like chicken little running around yelling "the sky is falling". Except in this case the sky has already fallen and is clearly on the ground...I'm saying "what do we do now?"

Stop acting like pre-WWII Germany? Don't start treating what Trump's says like it's 25/25/25/25, or anything more than a big lie told enough times that people start to believe it? 

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it. -- Adolph Hitler

 

I see you've learned a great deal about belittling the opinions of others in order to make your points. Trump is a master at calling people Chicken Little.

[Ten oz]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

I'm very sorry you see Trump's willful ignorance as "small stuff". To me, it defines him and what he's doing to our country. I don't understand how you think holding his actions up to the light enables him.

Seems to me that a lot of people are separating Trump from the Republican party at large as a means of dimissing him while still lending his enablers creditability. It allows one the cover to support everything Trump does while still claiming to be intellectually opposed to Trump. It is dishonest.

[J.C.MacSwell]

12 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Vote?

Can't disagree with that. What's the best way of getting most of the moderates in the country to vote with you?

[CharonY]

4 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

And they are doing their best to prevent those opposing doing so.

Sure, there are many lawsuits going on right now. In Ohio a Federal judge just or ordered purged voters to be allowed in. The big issue is that ruling parties often have the ability to create rules against (or promoting) certain demographics to increase their vote count. This not a Trump or even only an US issue. However, within the US it is mostly a GOP issue (aside from strange primaries rules).

[J.C.MacSwell]

8 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Seems to me that a lot of people are separating Trump from the Republican party at large as a means of dimissing him while still lending his enablers creditability. It allows one the cover to support everything Trump does while still claiming to be intellectually opposed to Trump. It is dishonest.

There you go again...keep your head in the sand and keep thinking that type of self righteous diatribe does not enable Trump...hopefully you get it right in 2020 if you fail now.

Edited November 1, 2018 by J.C.MacSwell

[iNow]

7 minutes ago, CharonY said:

The big issue is that ruling parties often have the ability to create rules against (or promoting) certain demographics to increase their vote count.

A situation worsened by their focus on installing scores of federal judges who will rule in favor or said laws when they get challenged by those impacted

[CharonY]

1 minute ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

There you go again...keep your head in the sand and think that type of diatribe does not enable Trump...hopefully you get it right in 2020 if you fail now.

What do you mean? If I understand Ten oz correctly GOP folks are trying to eat the cake and have it, too. Trump vitalizes the far right, white nationalist loonies with his outrageous tweets, failure to condemn white terrorists and creating  the boogeyman virile and dangerous (as well as lazy and disease-ridden) foreigners (of the wrong skin colour). Depending on their voter base some politicians wholeheartedly embrace it openly (say, King), others try to appear to be more moderate and sometimes even mildly disapproving, up until when they need to cast their votes. I.e. these seemingly moderates make it possible for reasonable conservatives to vote for the GOP, even whilst despising everything about Trump [insert long list of a variety of issues here].

2 minutes ago, iNow said:

A situation worsened by their focus on installing scores of federal judges who will rule in favor or said laws when they get challenged by those impacted

That is true. 

 

11 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Can't disagree with that. What's the best way of getting most of the moderates in the country to vote with you?

First thing is to get folks to vote. Most folks do not vote and it is not due to suppression A 55% turnout is barely a democratic mandate.

[J.C.MacSwell]

14 minutes ago, CharonY said:

What do you mean? If I understand Ten oz correctly GOP folks are trying to eat the cake and have it, too. Trump vitalizes the far right, white nationalist loonies with his outrageous tweets, failure to condemn white terrorists and creating  the boogeyman virile and dangerous (as well as lazy and disease-ridden) foreigners (of the wrong skin colour). Depending on their voter base some politicians wholeheartedly embrace it openly (say, King), others try to appear to be more moderate and sometimes even mildly disapproving, up until when they need to cast their votes. I.e. these seemingly moderates make it possible for reasonable conservatives to vote for the GOP, even whilst despising everything about Trump [insert long list of a variety of issues here].

I can't really disagree with any of that. Can you see the other side of it? Can you not see any substance in Trump's positions? (rhetoric and falsehoods aside?) 

People get so ticked off at Trump they seem to leave themselves exposed in their positions, probably left to look less balance, or less practical, than they otherwise would be.

[rangerx]

24 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Can you not see any substance in Trump's positions? (rhetoric and falsehoods aside?) 

People get so ticked off at Trump they seem to leave themselves exposed in their positions, probably left to look less balance, or less practical, than they otherwise would be.

As opposed to the way Obama or Clinton were treated?

Both were attacked relentlessly for things they either didn't say or didn't do, whereas Trump brought it on himself.

But, just to indulge your point. No. There's next to nothing redeeming about Trump's policies IMHO. I am struggling to even come up with one, because nothing jumps out at me.

Let's talk about what affects us as Canadians. We got rid of the milk board, which is a good thing, but at the end of the day milk is the same price and America can push hormone laden milk on us. Now we pay more for cars, steel and aluminum and products thereof. Kind of like biting off your nose to spite your face, don't you think?

Edited November 1, 2018 by rangerx

[CharonY]

15 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I can't really disagree with any of that. Can you see the other side of it? Can you not see any substance in Trump's positions? (rhetoric and falsehoods aside?) 

On which topic? I mean. are you able to describe a coherent position on an issue? The big issue I have is that there is mostly only falsehoods and rhetoric. Trump is pathologically uninformed and I found it virtually impossible to figure out what he means or wants. Sure, you could say that trade deficits can be an issue, for example, but the way he describes it and the fact that he started trade war does not seem to be related to the substance of the issue at all.

For other topics, it is even worse.

[J.C.MacSwell]

1 minute ago, CharonY said:

On which topic? I mean. are you able to describe a coherent position on an issue? The big issue I have is that there is mostly only falsehoods and rhetoric. Trump is pathologically uninformed and I found it virtually impossible to figure out what he means or wants. Sure, you could say that trade deficits can be an issue, for example, but the way he describes it and the fact that he started trade war does not seem to be related to the substance of the issue at all.

For other topics, it is even worse.

Might have been a poor choice of words, but by "position" I meant roughly where he could reasonably be placed on an issue, rhetoric aside. As usual, my personal views would be pretty similar to most here...once we all get over Trump.