Poll: Knowledge for some.

[Sayonara]

Because of our semi-voluntary education system in the West, and the cost of a relatively good education, it is my great concern that the majority of the population are not equipped with enough basic scientific knowledge with which to protect themselves from the challenges of modern life.

 

For instance, I recently witnessed two Saint John's Ambulance workers mutilate a customer's hand in a night club by running fast-flowing, freezing cold water over the burn he had sustained. When I explained to them that the temperature of the water was causing a gradient that resulted in secondary burning, and that the force of the water was tearing the guy's skin, they both looked at me as if I was mad. Somehow I got the impression that my degree in biology would not be considered comparable to their 2-day first aid training courses (or whatever they have to do).

 

I'm constantly amazed at the level of general ignorance displayed by people from all walks of life, and at all levels of employ.

 

People who can't get their heads around logging in to an operating system (I know a lot of people who call it "when I first go in", and constantly call IT support to help them log in even though they have written down their passwords and put the sheet on their copy-holder, next to the monitor).

 

People who don't understand that alcohol denatures proteins, and therefore makes you more likely to bleed to death in a car-crash.

 

People who don't understand the relatively simple concept of density, ffs.

 

 

Perhaps I'm just living in a mentally deprived area. Or perhaps we are living in the age of celebritised ignorance. What do you guys think?

[Radical Edward]

celebritised ignorance is one of the major culprits I think, not to mention the general obsession with image and frivolous things. I'm not against looking good and enjoying yourself and so on, but too many people have it as the core of their existance.

 

It could also be the fault of the Education systems too. I can't speak for other countries, but in the UK, learning isn't actually all that interesting. The learning process is to rigid and focussed on results and examinations, which often show little else than the person being tested has been well coached to pass an exam.

 

Almost any pre-degree exam can be passed by anyone if they have facts stuffed into their head in the right way. Granted intelligence does help, but alot of the time I don't think that these exams show up genuine intelligence.

 

sadly while I can go some way to identifying the problem, I can do nothing to suggest a cure. That I will have to leave to the sociologists and other qualified people.

[Sayonara]

Thanks for that thoughtful post, Radical - I have to say I agree.

 

In the UK education system I have noticed time and again that while the actual knowledge is taught, there is rarely any explanation as to why the student needs to know it.

 

There's also a lack of curiosity that borders on the apathetic. During my college education I was the only person in the higher chemistry set who wanted to know why ice expands if solids are a contractd form of their liquids. I honestly don't think that question even occurred to anyone else.

[blike]

It could also be the fault of the Education systems too. I can't speak for other countries, but in the UK, learning isn't actually all that interesting.

 

At least there is learning in the UK. Honestly, you should see how academically uninclined our youth is. And the funny thing, they pass. Thankfully, I came from a private highschool which I feel did a better job than the public education system.

 

I was suprised at how juvenille the english composition classes were at my university. My little brother(freshman in highschool) could write better papers than half the people in the class.

 

America's education is probably the most flawed of them all.

[aman]

I've done such a variety of things in my life. I learned to appreciate common sense before education because education without common sense is a castle on the sand. It's sad how much damage this has wrought on the world. No common sense or education fills our prisons, with some of the above included. Common sense with limited education keeps the world running and a lot of these people self educate themselves outside of school and in the workplace.

To have common sense and also enjoy education is the biggest blessing, but also the curse of seeing that what is going on in the world sucks. This should be the majority and not the minority.

Working with groups that have Masters and PHD's is such a joy when your blessed enough to experience it but live in a low rent trailer court for a couple of years and you'll go insane.

I lived with the Choco Indians between Panama and Colombia for a while and their common sense kept me alive in some bad situations. I'm less afraid of the jungle than trailer courts or downtown NY or CA or New Orleans, or Atlanta.

A lot of the teachers just suck. There isn't enough common sense plus education people to go around. I think this is where we need to start. Just aman

[Sayonara]

There are 56 members here - surely more than 7 people have an opinion on this?

 

:feedback:

[aman]

An exciting class I had was Mr. Hu cus he paddled bad students back when it was permissable. He actually could teach. I had a teacher who was a drunk and when he came in with a bandaid on his forehead we made fun of how he must have passed out and hit his head on the desk. That was fun for a couple of weeks but most of the class didn't learna a thing. The thrill in algebra was to walk up to the teachers desk and fart as you passed. Every young man in english waited for the teacher in a short skirt on a stool in front of the class to uncross her legs. I myself don't remember what she taught. Somebody in Chemistry tacked a joint on the bulletin board with a tack and for two weeks the thrill was to see if it was still there before it was finally noticed. Why did students search for distractions when learning was offered?

Just aman

[Morat]

Scott Adams (the man who writes Dilbert in case you don't know him) suggested semi-seriously that the world is being made more complicated all the time. This is done by the tiny percentage of highly educated, intelligent people who deal with the cutting edge of science and technology, and everyone else is getting left behind.

 

Knowledge and technology naturally beget more knowledge and technology, especially under our current system. Hence, education systems (with no comparative mechanism driving them) naturally become relatively less effective over time.

[aman]

Thats a good point but the basics don't change and there is a minimum you can have to move forward in your life. At least literacy. Most won't catch up and will be left behind but they will use the products of the people on the edge.

If they can read.

Just aman

[JaKiri]

Originally posted by Radical Edward

 

Not all exams.

 

For instance STEP forces one to think, however these are being replaced in all subjects but maths with the AEA (which don't, if the maths one I sat is a fair sample).

[Radical Edward]

my main criticism was the system itself - though again I shouldn't generalise really as a certain amount of that also depends on the policy of the teachers and schools.

[chris]

Schools are a joke. Everyone knows it. Sadly, teachers are starting to care less about education, because of all the bullsh*t we put them through. Sure there are alot of area's where there isn't a problem. But where i live, people give teachers such a hard time, they dont want to come teach. Ironicly, we are the ones screwing our selfs over...

[fafalone]

90% of the world are cretins, and the rest of us are in danger of contamination.

[Radical Edward]

I think that is what soaps and programs like Big Brother are for, to keep all the cretins off the streets and infront of the TV where we* are safe.

 

*yes, we, not they. their safety is irrelevant.

[chris]

::gets worried:: where would i stand in all of this!?

[aman]

Have you seen the list of quality people that were taken in 9/11? Over two thousand. Mostly well educated and disciplined.

A lot of educated and common sense people live in the U.S. Thank God they have a majority say in the worlds direction. The military educates a large percentage of us. The armed forces have the extra discipine some of the borderline people need. We're 250 million strong and we have over a million in prison and maybe a million more should be.

Thats the result of our education process. Something is radically wrong and I can't figure it out. How do we maximize everyone to their potential? How do we make kids want to know what we know?

Just aman

[chris]

simple. let them talk to faf for an hour.

[aman]

Another aspect is intelligent people should procreate. I know a guy with 200 IQ that can't talk to a woman without wanting to teach her something. The only date I've seen him on, he gave her guitar lessons. The same goes for some of the Engineers I knew at Rockwell. They were called Nerds. Horny Nerds. How are we going to reap the benefits of the knowledge down the line if they don't have social skills to marry and have kids?

They braved the negative reinforcement in being smartest in school but it affects social skills in being an oddball. In some schools it sucks to be smart. Nerds suck, Jocks rule. That whole attitude has to change.

Just aman

[Radical Edward]

oh I dunno. It can be good too, but the other half has to have a sense of humour about it. I remember some funny occasions with me and my ex, me saying the 'sciency' thing when I should have been doing the romantic thing.. heh. all clean like, but I think I will leave those little anecdotes for another time unless people really want to hear them

[aman]

Maybe schools ought to teach people how to be married. I mean besides all the basic sciences and English. Social Skills 1. Learn there is a right and wrong in math but there are twenty rights and fifty wrongs in social skills. Sometimes there's all rights (controlling) and sometimes there's none (your life sucks).

We don't teach ethics in elementary school. It should be a separate course and if you don't pass, you stay behind.

Just my opinion.

Just aman

[Radical Edward]

there is a danger in trying to teach children about too much. and then of course there are just some things that you can't teach - some things that are up to the parents. sadly of course, many of the parents are inadequate.

[aman]

You don't flunk parenting until your jailed and the child is ruined or dead. I don't know any quick fixes but parenting is the key. We can't seem to fix it and it's gonna keep biting us on the butt.

Just aman

[mooeypoo]

DEFINATELY - humanity is turning stupider and stupider. And I don't mean science - science is getting better, that's true, BUT it also something that makes me quite surprised, concidering the facts--

 

1) children today use calculators in maths classes since the BEGINNING instead of learning to calculate in their minds.

 

2) Physics don't get enough place in the general educational system and usually those who study the general physics in school end up hating it (the subjects they teach are uninformative and BORING and REALLY annoying.. no wonder less people chose those subjects as majors)

 

 

I think school also loses it's point of teaching children to have exploring minds and a good research skills. People settle for obvious instead of doubting and asking questions..

 

That's my two cents.

 

~moo

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

See, this is why my class calls me a walking encyclopedia. The school I used to go to was all of the good things, but now the public schools are all stupid.

Same with the teachers.

[MishMish]

Education has always been the reserve of a few, but I think the consequences are more apparent perhaps the further the economy moves from subsistence.

 

As for the current system, hard for me to comment as it's been so long since have been in school and am only tangentially at best involved with others who are in school now. But I can agree an emphasis on the underlying principles, so that they can be applied to novel situations, and making explicit the relevance of the principles to real world situations would benefit.