Is Atheism Dead? An Interesting Read.

[coffeesippin]

9 minutes ago, mistermack said:

How many would be believers without being indoctrinated as little children? It's nothing to take pride in when it's the result of the abuse of immature minds. 

My conversion had nothing to do with childhood upbringing except that I had respect for law and the right of others' existence.   Who are you to say bringing up a child in a moral way like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Confucius, etc is abuse of immature minds.  I am certain ALL of those belief systems let the child know they cannot stand behind their parents skirts or trousers, but must find God or truth on their own, that their upbringing is a first step in that process.  Now you may say 'Oh those idiot Born Againers' but that's what Christianity teaches .. that being born to parents is a first step .. that a person must be born of God.  Yes I know T.V. makes a mockery of God and Born Againers, but you have to get beyond T.V. Mack.

5 minutes ago, Strange said:

START ANOTHER THREAD IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THIS 

You're the one who brings it up .. you said you believe in verifiables .. you start the thread.  I'll jump in.

4 minutes ago, studiot said:

How has this thread turned from a discussion about Aetheism, (which could be conducted without a single reference to Big G), to a discussion about Big G?

And why all the preaching?

Amen!  I suggested closing the thread because Strange answered the question by saying he does not believe in God .. but he suggested the thread would continue.   The preaching arises because the question concerns God.  The discussion on BB arises from people saying science proves there IS no God, which isn't the question, but whether Atheism is dead.   Yes, wandering widely indeed, but seemingly all connected and logical.  However, as the answer HAS been answered, Atheism is NOT dead, why not close the topic and open topics for question raised in the topic.  Phew.

Edited November 17, 2018 by coffeesippin
To Verify

[studiot]

8 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

The preaching arises because the question concerns God.

So you admit to preaching?

As far as I am aware that contravenes forum rules.

[mistermack]

10 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

My conversion had nothing to do with childhood upbringing

I don't believe a word you write since your previous rubbish. Liars for Jesus nearly always claim that they were once sceptics. It's so predictable it's tiresome. It might work with little children. I have no idea why you should imagine it would work on anyone here.

[Strange]

14 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

I suggested closing the thread because Strange answered the question by saying he does not believe in God ..

I said "gods" not "God"

[coffeesippin]

22 minutes ago, beecee said:

 No where near the facts that philosophical banter actually lacks.

Not sure if one can believe what you say, particularly as you have given no reputable references, still, as I said, convention actually holds true in my opinion, and many, probably the vast majority, adhere in name only...eg: How many christians go to church on a Sunday...afterall that is one of the ten commandments...how many christians continue to lie through their teeth?

Of course there is....I for one, accept science and the scientific method because of the questions it has obviously answered, as well as the good it has done for mankind in general, despite your denial of those facts.

Those are not really scientific questions although at least in one case science does offer evidence in agreement. 

sadly for you, who is ignorant of the basics of science, you simply attempt to practise your philosophy on others. As I said, I don't hold to the terms atheists, agnostics, or theists, rather I follow the observations, experimental successes and sensibility of the scientific method in rejecting that which is supernatural, paranormal as totally unscientific. 

"Not sure if one can believe what you say, particularly as you have given no reputable references,"   And what references have YOU given, Beecee, to your claims of Christians lying through their teeth which is quite a statement indeed, of not going to church on Sunday (which is not a commandment by the way rather all believers of all faiths are encouraged to get together for their own enjoyment and benefit with certain days sometimes being offered as good times to enjoy their own company) what is the substantiation of anything you say for instance, that you follow observations rejecting the paranormal and supernatural .. so you reject the reality of non-locality which has been demonstrated clearly, a non-locality that Einstein called 'Spooky,' or is 'Spooky' not supernatural and paranormal enough for you? 

10 minutes ago, studiot said:

So you admit to preaching?

As far as I am aware that contravenes forum rules.

Those who profess science proves there is no God are preaching, Studiot, according to the meaning of the word preaching.

• publicly proclaim or teach (a religious message or belief).

  "a church that preaches the good news"

  synonyms:

  proclaim, teach, spread, propagate, expound "he preached the gospel to them"

• earnestly advocate (a belief or course of action).

  "my parents have always preached toleration and moderation"

  synonyms:

  advocate, recommend, advise, urge, teach, counsel "they preach toleration"

Edited November 17, 2018 by coffeesippin
Add a Word Definition

[studiot]

8 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

16 minutes ago, studiot said:

So you admit to preaching?

As far as I am aware that contravenes forum rules.

Those who profess science proves there is no God are preaching, Studiot, according to the meaning of the word preaching.

 

Strange said he didn't believe in a god or gods of any sort.

You said you believe in on particular god.

I didn't say what I believe in so you have no basis for attempting to link me to the above statement.

 

In any case the original poster posed the following question which has been answered in the negative

Quote

Is Atheism Dead?

 

since at least one member here has stated they do not believe in any sort of god.

 

Remember this is a Philosophy section of the forum.

As I said, Preaching is not even allowed in the Religion section, it must be discussed intellectual and academic terms.

Edited November 17, 2018 by studiot

[coffeesippin]

9 minutes ago, Strange said:

I said "gods" not "God"

"I don't belief in gods (yours or anyone else's) there for atheism is not dead."    My God is God .. there are no others.  So, are you professing you belief in God?   

[beecee]

9 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

"Not sure if one can believe what you say, particularly as you have given no reputable references,"   And what references have YOU given, Beecee, to your claims of Christians lying through their teeth which is quite a statement indeed, of not going to church on Sunday (which is not a commandment by the way rather all believers of all faiths are encouraged to get together for their own enjoyment and benefit with certain days sometimes being offered as good times to enjoy their own company) what is the substantiation of anything you say for instance, that you follow observations rejecting the paranormal and supernatural .. so you reject the reality of non-locality which has been demonstrated clearly, a non-locality that Einstein called 'Spooky,' or is 'Spooky' not supernatural and paranormal enough for you? 

It is a commandment of the Catholic church my  friend, from memory as a former good Catholic boy, the third. Yes, I most certainly reject the paranormal and supernatural, as having absolutely no empirical evidence to support either, and as being unscientific myth.

[coffeesippin]

2 minutes ago, studiot said:

 

Strange said he didn't believe in a god or gods of any sort.

You said you believe in on particular god.

I didn't say what I believe in so you have no basis for attempting to link me to the above statement.

 

In any case the original poster posed the following question which has been answered in the negative

 

since at least one member here has stated they do not believe in any sort of god.

 

Remember this is a Philosophy section of the forum.

As I said, Preaching is not even allowed in the Religion section, it must be discussed intellectual and academic terms.

You did not read the meanings of the word preaching, Studiot.  I'll include one of the meanings again:  

 

earnestly advocate (a belief or course of action).

"my parents have always preached toleration and moderation"

synonyms:

advocate, recommend, advise, urge, teach, counsel "they preach toleration"                                                                                                        In earnestly advocating your belief in science you are preaching.  You are preaching your belief in science, not anyone else's but your own, and you are earnestly advocating it, and are therefore preaching.  THAT is the link.

[beecee]

32 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

  The discussion on BB arises from people saying science proves there IS no God, which isn't the question, but whether Atheism is dead.   

Are you lying, ignorant or being obtuse? Who said the BB proves there is no god? The belief in the supernatural and paranormal is simply unscientific and has absolutely no empirical evidence to supprt it.

[coffeesippin]

2 minutes ago, beecee said:

It is a commandment of the Catholic church my  friend, from memory as a former good Catholic boy, the third. Yes, I most certainly reject the paranormal and supernatural, as having absolutely no empirical evidence to support either, and as being unscientific myth.

Then why do many Catholics including people I have coffee with often at a cafe go to church tonight for mass?  Saturday is, as you know, certainly not Sunday.   I've never been Catholic, attended mass with friends twice, but I'm not Protestant either.    Have you always believed in Non Locality?  Where you ever aligned with those who considered Non Locality supernatural, pseudo science, myth, etc?  If so, when did you stop believing in Non Locality as supernatural?  Discovering Non Locality was real was a real revolution in scientific thought, and very recent.  Five years ago it was still considered supernatural by many who think themselves scientific.

[Strange]

13 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

"I don't belief in gods (yours or anyone else's) there for atheism is not dead."    My God is God .. there are no others.  So, are you professing you belief in God?   

I don't really care how many gods you believers think there are, I don't believe in any of them! (And your grasp on logic seems rather poor there)

[beecee]

1 hour ago, coffeesippin said:

Those things are not the topic of discussion.  the death of Atheism is the topic. 

The death of Atheism is associated with the reverse I suggest, and the more likley for the reasons I have stated...that is, the conforming to religious beliefs as simply traditional and in name only and fear of the unknown.

 

1 hour ago, Zosimus said:

It is rare to see a post so devoid of any semblance of fact.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world followed closely by Christianity. By 2050, the number of Muslims and Christians will be the same. By way of comparison, only 9 percent of the US population disbelieves in God and only 3 percent are atheists. Even then, 8 percent of atheists believe in God, and 2 percent of atheists are certain that God exists.

The only post devoid of fact is your own.....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion

'Christianity as default is gone': the rise of a non-Christian Europe

Figures show a majority of young adults in 12 countries have no faith, with Czechs least religious:

"Europe’s march towards a post-Christian society has been starkly illustrated by research showing a majority of young people in a dozen countries do not follow a religion.

The survey of 16- to 29-year-olds found the Czech Republic is the least religious country in Europe, with 91% of that age group saying they have no religious affiliation. Between 70% and 80% of young adults in Estonia, Sweden and the Netherlands also categorise themselves as non-religious.

The most religious country is Poland, where 17% of young adults define themselves as non-religious, followed by Lithuania with 25%."

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

And obviously one can also read into that an even larger percenatge simply claiming belief, because they believe it the right thing to do and traditional.

[Strange]

2 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Five years ago it was still considered supernatural by many who think themselves scientific.

Stop dragging your ignorance of science into this 

[coffeesippin]

5 minutes ago, beecee said:

Are you lying, ignorant or being obtuse? Who said the BB proves there is no god? The belief in the supernatural and paranormal is simply unscientific and has absolutely no empirical evidence to supprt it.

There has been a lot written and read here in the past hour or so, I cannot remember saying those who believe in BB say it proves there is no God, and it doesn't sound like what I would say.  I believe I said the question of BB arose from questions of science proving or disproving the existence of God.  If you can find that statement please provide it.  If God wanted to use BB to create the universe who am I to say 'No God, don't do it that way!!!!!!"    Personally I believe he seeded quantum fluctuations that grew.  

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

Stop dragging your ignorance of science into this 

Strange you certainly do become.  What is it about Non Locality you don't believe.  It has been proven.  The Chinese demonstrated it at a distance with a satellite.  Etc.

[beecee]

30 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

.. so you reject the reality of non-locality which has been demonstrated clearly, a non-locality that Einstein called 'Spooky,' or is 'Spooky' not supernatural and paranormal enough for you? 

We have evidence for that as counter intuitive as it may seem. We have no evidence for the paranormal or the supernatural, despite your against the rules, incessant preaching.

[Moontanman]

4 hours ago, coffeesippin said:

"In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in allegiance to the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own." ~ thomas jefferson     It's unfortunate that Jefferson seems to have exposure only to priests of religions outside of the true religion.  

James 1:27 King James Version (KJV)

²⁷ Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

And which religion is the pure undefiled one and how do you know? 

[Strange]

5 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Strange you certainly do become.  What is it about Non Locality you don't believe.  It has been proven.  The Chinese demonstrated it at a distance with a satellite.  Etc.

It has been known for about 100 years and proved for about 40. Now stop bringing erroneous and irrelevant pseudo scientific claims into this 

[coffeesippin]

5 minutes ago, beecee said:

The death of Atheism is associated with the reverse I suggest, and the more likley for the reasons I have stated...that is, the conforming to religious beliefs as simply traditional and in name only and fear of the unknown.

 

The only post devoid of fact is your own.....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion

'Christianity as default is gone': the rise of a non-Christian Europe

Figures show a majority of young adults in 12 countries have no faith, with Czechs least religious:

"Europe’s march towards a post-Christian society has been starkly illustrated by research showing a majority of young people in a dozen countries do not follow a religion.

The survey of 16- to 29-year-olds found the Czech Republic is the least religious country in Europe, with 91% of that age group saying they have no religious affiliation. Between 70% and 80% of young adults in Estonia, Sweden and the Netherlands also categorise themselves as non-religious.

The most religious country is Poland, where 17% of young adults define themselves as non-religious, followed by Lithuania with 25%."

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

And obviously one can also read into that an even larger percenatge simply claiming belief, because they believe it the right thing to do and traditional.

"The death of Atheism is associated with the reverse I suggest, and the more likley for the reasons I have stated...that is, the conforming to religious beliefs as simply traditional and in name only and fear of the unknown."    I really have little understanding of what you are saying in the first 10 words.   I agree that many people are leaving traditional religions, I see it clearly in Canada, but there are new organizations all the time .. non-denominationalism.  People who believe in God are also leaving the formal assemblies because they can't seem to provide the outer-wall friendships and fellowships believers desire, once a week togetherness is not enough to sustain human relationships.  Another reason for going outside the walls is the scripture that says the New Jerusalem will have no temple.  (Revelation.  You can google it easily.)  That doesn't mean those people are NOT believing in God, but that they DO. 

[studiot]

20 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

earnestly advocate (a belief or course of action).

"my parents have always preached toleration and moderation"

synonyms:

advocate, recommend, advise, urge, teach, counsel "they preach toleration"

I can only suggest you obtain a better dictionary.

One that does not claim the meaning of the word advise is the same as the meaning of word urge or the meaning of the word teach.

[coffeesippin]

Just now, Strange said:

It has been known for about 100 years and proved for about 40. Now stop bringing erroneous and irrelevant pseudo scientific claims into this 

What claims do you think are erroneous and irrelevant and pseudo scientific?  I thought we were talking about spooky Non Locality.

[Phi for All]

18 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

You did not read the meanings of the word preaching, Studiot.  I'll include one of the meanings again:  

 

For the purposes of our rules, preaching (or soapboxing) is defined as pushing an idea without evidence or support for it, yet insisting its correct while ignoring reasoned, supported arguments against it. It's against our rules because it's a waste of time trying to discuss anything with a preacher, or anyone unwilling to change their mind after hearing the best supported argument. 

[coffeesippin]

Just now, studiot said:

I can only suggest you obtain a better dictionary.

One that does not claim the meaning of the word advise is the same as the meaning of word urge or the meaning of the word teach.

I can only advise you accept the reality of the meaning of the words as defined in dictionaries rather than your own understanding.  Perhaps you can check different dictionaries, I don't need to, I worked as a reporter photographer for a daily newspaper.

[studiot]

1 minute ago, Phi for All said:

For the purposes of our rules, preaching (or soapboxing) is defined as pushing an idea without evidence or support for it, yet insisting its correct while ignoring reasoned, supported arguments against it. It's against our rules because it's a waste of time trying to discuss anything with a preacher, or anyone unwilling to change their mind after hearing the best supported argument. 

Thank you. +1

[beecee]

54 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

My conversion had nothing to do with childhood upbringing except that I had respect for law and the right of others' existence.   Who are you to say bringing up a child in a moral way like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Confucius, etc is abuse of immature minds.  I am certain ALL of those belief systems let the child know they cannot stand behind their parents skirts or trousers, but must find God or truth on their own, that their upbringing is a first step in that process.  Now you may say 'Oh those idiot Born Againers' but that's what Christianity teaches .. that being born to parents is a first step .. that a person must be born of God.  Yes I know T.V. makes a mockery of God and Born Againers, but you have to get beyond T.V. Mack.

You're the one who brings it up .. you said you believe in verifiables .. you start the thread.  I'll jump in.

Amen!  I suggested closing the thread because Strange answered the question by saying he does not believe in God .. but he suggested the thread would continue.   The preaching arises because the question concerns God.  The discussion on BB arises from people saying science proves there IS no God, which isn't the question, but whether Atheism is dead.   Yes, wandering widely indeed, but seemingly all connected and logical.  However, as the answer HAS been answered, Atheism is NOT dead, why not close the topic and open topics for question raised in the topic.  Phew.

Are you claiming you never said this?  Again, where has anyone ever said that the BB or science proves there is no god. The truth  of the matter is, that science has shown the bible to be a load of codswallop, and has shown any need for any god as unnecessary and superfluous. Science does not deal in proofs. God is simply an unscientific concept despite your personal beliefs.