Replacing sleep or somehow energizing the human body?

[FreeTheGenius]

Hi!

I was wondering if anyone knows how humans can replace sleep, and what year we would be estimated to have the medical knowledge and tools to be able to do that?

If you go long without sleep, the body decays and you die, usually combined with heart failure or stroke. 

I also wonder what energizes us?

/FreeTheGenius

[Strange]

1 hour ago, FreeTheGenius said:

I was wondering if anyone knows how humans can replace sleep, and what year we would be estimated to have the medical knowledge and tools to be able to do that?

I doubt we can, and why would we? If there were an advantage to eliminating sleep then I assume evolution would have found a way to do it. It appears to be a necessary part of the way the brain works.

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I also wonder what energizes us?

Mainly carbohydrates and fats.

[mistermack]

If anybody knows about this subject, it will be the military. A pill to duplicate the effects of sleep would be worth far more than a new missile guidance system. 

[DrP]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

why would we

I seem to remember many of the worlds great leaders who were very busy existed on 4 hours sleep per night. I used to run on 4 hours for many years when I was younger...  now I 'need' 5 minimum and prefer 6 at least. Any more is a bonus and I feel like it is a luxury rest.  Our chemistry teacher told us that she'd seen studies that suggested that 4 hours was the realistic minimum for humans to continue to live healthily with enough rest to repair the body/mind. She said that people like Thatcher, Churchill and some famous scientists ran on 4 hours a night.  (I just looked this up and it seems some took less than 4 even - but I am not sure how healthy that is).

 

Why would we want to sleep less? More time in the day for work, more time for fun etc..   Sometimes I am enjoying myself at 2 or 3am and want to continue watching something or working on something or cataloguing something and it would be handy and enjoyable not to HAVE to go to bed because you know you have to otherwise you won't be having a good time in the morning when you have to get up for work.  As Mistermack has just pointed out - it would be useful if your soldier or spy did not NEED to sleep or could postpone it till later.

 

[Sensei]

3 hours ago, FreeTheGenius said:

I was wondering if anyone knows how humans can replace sleep, (...)

During sleeping human brain is translating short-term memory and working memory to long-term memory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_memory#Encoding_of_information

There are neurological malfunctions (caused by e.g. accident in which brain has been damaged) in which people are remembering just a single day of life. After waking up the next day, they don't remember what happened in previous day, but remember their entire life to the moment of accident.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2914200/

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Sensei

[iNow]

Can’t be replaced entirely, but meditation can help minimize the deleterious effects of continued wakefulness. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2919439/

[FreeTheGenius]

Thank you for sharing your answers. My question is if there’s anything you can do for a person with FFI aka Fatal Insomnia, to prevent their death (arrives in 9 months to 2 years, few live longer)? Meditation? Foods? Vitamins? How to prevent strokes and heart failure in a severely sleep deprived insomniac?

[iNow]

I don't know the answer to that question, but I suspect the mothers of newborn babies may have some insights. 

[Sensei]

FFI has been diagnosed in 40 families and 100 people worldwide (according to Wikipedia). Are you one of them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_insomnia

"If only one parent has the gene, the offspring have a 50% risk of inheriting it and developing the disease. With onset usually around middle age, potential parents must be tested if they wish to avoid passing FFI on to their children."

The easiest fix would be not having offspring and let mutation to disappear from human population.

...or a bit more complex, replace normal sexual intercourse impregnation, by in-vitro method (obviously just these 100 people worldwide).. Each embryo should be checked against whether it has unwanted mutation of gene and only the one with correct DNA should be used..

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Sensei

[dimreepr]

42 minutes ago, FreeTheGenius said:

Thank you for sharing your answers. My question is if there’s anything you can do for a person with FFI aka Fatal Insomnia, to prevent their death (arrives in 9 months to 2 years, few live longer)? Meditation? Foods? Vitamins? How to prevent strokes and heart failure in a severely sleep deprived insomniac?

 

insomniacs sleep longer than they think

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/sep/22/dreamland-insomnia-sleep-cbt-drugs

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-03-people-insomnia-dont-theyre-asleep.html

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by dimreepr

[FreeTheGenius]

23 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

insomniacs sleep longer than they think

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/sep/22/dreamland-insomnia-sleep-cbt-drugs

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-03-people-insomnia-dont-theyre-asleep.html

 

This is actually entirely false and proven by science. People with fatal insomnia have done technological tests measuring their brain waves to prove they sleep as little as 0 minutes per night.

The person who spread this false science about “sleeping more than you think” should receive life-time prison for the suffering they have caused REAL FATAL insomniacs, who DIE from their insomnia. 

Absolutely horrifying to see such idiotic and false publications.

FFI is rare but there are most probably many unregistered victims of this disease. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by FreeTheGenius

[iNow]

It's probably important to distinguish between those with fatal insomnia and those who just think they don't sleep well and who call themselves insomniacs.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, FreeTheGenius said:

This is actually false and proven by science. People with fatal insomnia have done technological tests to prove they sleep as little as 0 minutes per night.

The person who spread this false science about “sleeping more than you think” should receive life-time prison for the suffering they have caused REAL FATAL insomniacs, who DIE from their insomnia. 

Absolutely horrifying to see such idiotic and false publications.

[FreeTheGenius]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

Read about FFI, it’s a real disease. Don’t be ignorant. This is fatal. Also see the Japanese cases of intentional insomniacs.

[CharonY]

Just now, FreeTheGenius said:

Read about FFI, it’s a real disease. Don’t be ignorant. This is fatal. Also see the Japanese cases of intentional insomniacs.

As the name implies, FFI is hereditary disease. Insomnia is just one of the symptoms and not the cause of morbidity itself. You will have to stop the prion misfolding in order to avoid fatal nerve damage. I.e. it is not the lack of sleep that leads to death, it is the prion-induced damage (see also Creutzfeldt-Jacob or Kuru for similar diseases).

 

[FreeTheGenius]

On 2018-11-20 at 6:03 PM, CharonY said:

As the name implies, FFI is hereditary disease. Insomnia is just one of the symptoms and not the cause of morbidity itself. You will have to stop the prion misfolding in order to avoid fatal nerve damage. I.e. it is not the lack of sleep that leads to death, it is the prion-induced damage (see also Creutzfeldt-Jacob or Kuru for similar diseases).

 

Going entirely without sleep for a few days only is fatal. You risk heart failure and strokes. In Japan it is common to die from this, they overwork to death and have strokes.

I’ve read a lot about FFI and the main focus is the insomnia, the insomnia caused by the prion disease. The name is literally familial FATAL INSOMNIA. It ends similarly to the Japanese overwork-death. On wikipedia, you can see the entire process of the body breaking down.

You seem like a completely retarded person, to be honest: what is your point? I’m speaking of fatal insomnia, FFI included: FFI is fatal, I doubt you know what you’re talking about. Seek treatment for your tiny brain, find something better to do with your life than to comment on things you obviously know very little about.

I’m one of the brightest geniuses you’d ever meet, and I can NEVER seem to understand why there’s always this tiny group of retarded people in our population who decide to comment on things they know nothing about, or make assumptions. It annoys me. Honestly, I just HAD to say this: because you seem like you’re a robot without a red thread or main point other than to attempt to find something, just ANYTHING, to comment on - and then you know so very little about it - you probably never even heard of FFI before. Sorry, but I had a really bad day and I’m tired of idiots like you in our forums. Study it thoroughly, then comment.

 

EDIT: JUST FYI: not much of an edit but: I confused you with the other guy, dimreeper. I thought you were the same person. Made it look like you were just one person trying to ”comment on something you knew nothing about just for the sake of it”. I still doubt you know anything of FFI. You really should study properly before replying. Insomnia is always fatal in ”high doses”! Prion disease caused or not - it ends with strokes and heart disease. The body wears out and dies. This happens after only a few days of 0 minutes of sleep. If you manage to get more sleep, you survive longer. Sleep is a basic need, like eating. You seem like an extreme uneducated idiot just like dimreepr. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by FreeTheGenius

[Strange]

18 minutes ago, FreeTheGenius said:

You seem like a completely retarded person, to be honest: what is your point?

!

Moderator Note

This is completely unacceptable. Rule 1: Be civil.

 

[FreeTheGenius]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

!

Moderator Note

This is completely unacceptable. Rule 1: Be civil.

 

Some people on here are stupid enough to deserve such commentary. Don’t you think?

[Strange]

Just now, FreeTheGenius said:

Some people on here are stupid enough to deserve such commentary. Don’t you think?

!

Moderator Note

No. If you can't follow the rules, perhaps you should take a break from posting.

 

[CharonY]

4 minutes ago, FreeTheGenius said:

Going entirely without sleep for a few days only is fatal. You risk heart failure and strokes. In Japan it is common to die from this, they overwork to death and have strokes.

Nope. Chronic lack of sleep does increase mortality. Cases in Japan and elsewhere are based on that. Chronic sleep deprivation. But sure, find a case study where folks died from staying awake a couple of days. In fact, why don't you tell me about voluntary sleep deprivation studies and show how many died in them?

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8 minutes ago, FreeTheGenius said:

I’ve read a lot about FFI and the main focus is the insomnia, the insomnia caused by the prion disease. The name is literally familial FATAL INSOMNIA. It ends similarly to the Japanese overwork-death. On wikipedia, you can see the entire process of the body breaking down.

 

The etiology is entirely different and there are additional risk factors pertaining to death as well as the timing of neurological damage. As such the direct comparison of these situations seems to be very far off. More importantly though, since you claim to know so much, why don't you tell us about the mechanisms leading to death in FFI? How can you be so sure that insomnia is not merely the accompanying symptom of the prion disease but the causative agent of death. I will acknowledge that we know more about the involved mechanisms in descriptive terms rather in functional  and causative terms. However, since you have studied that in depth, I would be interested how you solved that puzzle. I hope it is not just because of the name of the disease, as you keep repeating, because that is not how it works. 

Quote

You seem like a completely retarded person, to be honest: what is your point? I’m speaking of fatal insomnia, FFI included: FFI is fatal, I doubt you know what you’re talking about. Seek treatment for your tiny brain, find something better to do with your life than to comment on things you obviously know very little about.

That does not explain the causation between the neurodegradation and death. Have you, for example looked into more recent research involving e.g. the role of mitochondrial dysfunctions? But again, where is the evidence specifically that the loss of sleep causes mortality and not the damage which results in insomnia in the first place?

 

38 minutes ago, FreeTheGenius said:

I’m one of the brightest geniuses you’d ever meet,

I am so skeptical about that one. 

[Sensei]

There was couple fatal airplane accidents and crashes, in which thousands of people died because airplane pilots were tired..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_fatigue

"A Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) study of 55 human-factor aviation accidents from 1978 to 1999, concluded accidents increased proportionally to the amount of time the captain had been on duty"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_fatigue_on_safety

See graph of how percentage of crashes increase with hours of driving.

 

1 hour ago, FreeTheGenius said:

I’m one of the brightest geniuses you’d ever meet,

If you were a genius, you would not ask us for help in answering your questions.

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Sensei

[DrmDoc]

On 11/20/2018 at 5:54 AM, FreeTheGenius said:

Hi!

I was wondering if anyone knows how humans can replace sleep, and what year we would be estimated to have the medical knowledge and tools to be able to do that?

If you go long without sleep, the body decays and you die, usually combined with heart failure or stroke. 

I also wonder what energizes us?

/FreeTheGenius

When humans develop a means or method that is more efficient at filtering or removing interstitial cell waste from our brain than that provided by millions of years of brain evolution.  By relative volume of our total body weight (about 5%), our brain is the largest consumer of our overall energy uptake (about 20%).  That sizable uptake produces cell waste that must be removed from the brain for it to function efficiently.  Sleep, as the least active state of brain function, has evolved as the most efficient state for cell waste removal.  NREM, specifically, is that state when our brain produces little to no cell waste.  During NREM, our brain volume shrinks about 6% as its ventricles widen to facilitate the process of extracellular waste removal (Glypmhatic System).  If we think more clearly, have better concentration and memory after a good sleep, it's because our brain functions better when unobstructed by the byproducts of its metabolic processes.  Therefore, insomnia and lack of proper sleep is very much like physical constipation and all the deleterious connotations and brain effects that implies.