Did Einstein's God differ from Hawking's God?

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, koti said:

I just realized I lost those completely somewhere along the way so I no longer can relate.

unlucky...

[coffeesippin]

On 11/22/2018 at 10:54 AM, StringJunky said:

Plenty of Einstein quotes on this subject in this Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_views_of_Albert_Einstein

Here's one of them:  According to Prince Hubertus, Einstein said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."^[25]

[StringJunky]

5 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Here's one of them:  According to Prince Hubertus, Einstein said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."^[25]

Yes, I used that earlier as a rebuttal to Beecee.

[coffeesippin]

On 11/22/2018 at 2:31 PM, mistermack said:

You're conveniently selective with your evidence. You obviously ignore the mountains of similar but opposite evidence. 

I see that kind of reasoning as a self-induced stupidity. Not born, but acquired. Sort of deliberate blindness. 

Mountains of similar but opposite evidence?  Such as what?  If there are mountains they will be easy for you to see.  I was suspended for seven days, which is one reason I haven't been into this topic for awhile.  Before you answer, please don't mention wars and tragedies of human nature like murders .. humans are not robots programmed to do only good.  We choose to do evil.  God has given us minds with which to choose as well as with which to explore science.

[beecee]

7 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Here's one of them:  According to Prince Hubertus, Einstein said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."^[25]

Quotes attributed to great people are invariably taken out of context.....

https://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-features/tp-openpage/einstein-misquoted/article5230256.ece

"Prof. Vasant Natarajan tells us that Einstein called belief in God “childish superstition”. The actual quote is: “I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a CHILDLIKE [NOT CHILDISH] one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervour is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.”In fact, Einstein’s humility comes through in that his own attitude is childlike, which is indeed the attitude human beings must have in relation to God. (I will justify the use of the term ‘must’ because the scriptures of all religions enjoin on us an attitude of humility, and not pride, before the majesty of God.)

Let me quote Einstein further: “In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.”

So that was the position of Einstein. It’s understandable that those inclined not to believe in God or religion misplace their anger against violence done in the name of religion, against religion itself — But, it is, in fact a misjudgment."

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http://barefootsworld.org/einsteinnote.html

This is an unrecorded letter, found in a private collection, from Albert Einstein, in which the theoretical physicist wrote of his religious beliefs.

This is the back side and closing of the letter.

Einstein penned the letter on January 3 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind, upon receipt of Gutkind's book "Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt." In this extraordinary letter Einstein writes,

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish"

Einstein was Jewish but went to a Catholic primary school, receiving private tuition in Judaism at home. He declined the offer from the newly formed state of Israel to be its second president. In this letter, which was written in German the year before his death, Einstein wrote, "For me the Jewish religion like all others is the incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity, have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything ‘chosen’ about them"

Although Einstein emphatically rejected conventional religion, he was affronted when his views were appropriated by atheists, whose lack of humility he found offensive, and once wrote. "The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility."

Einstein was an intensely spiritual man and wrote extensively on the subject, perceiving a universe suffused with spirituality, while rejecting organized religion. In his later years he referred to a "cosmic religious feeling" that permeated and sustained his scientific work. In 1954, a year before his death, he spoke of wishing to "experience the universe as a single cosmic whole". He was also fond of using religious flourishes, in 1926 declaring that "He [God] does not throw dice" when referring to randomness thrown up by quantum theory.

Like other great scientists he does not fit the boxes in which popular polemicists like to pigeonhole him. It is clear, for example, that he had respect for the religious values enshrined within Judaic and Christian traditions ... but what he understood by religion was something far more subtle than what is usually meant by the word in popular discussion.

Einstein’s numerous and easily found pronouncements on the issues of God, faith and religion have revealed him to be the sort of peculiar hybrid not uncommon in scientific fields. No atheist, Einstein nevertheless characterized the notion of a personal and interactive God as a prideful one. The discoveries wrought through his curious mind reminded him, always, of all he did not know, and he wrote of the “superior spirit” and the “harmony” that connected and ran through everything with a genuine sense of wonder that could be described as a rather humble agnosticism.

“In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views.” (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000)

“My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality.”

 (The Human Side, Princeton University Press)

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So let's not take the great man and what he said out of context. I have often while looking at the stars, been lost in awe and wonderment, and awe and wonderment, of which much can be reasonably explained though science. If Einstein would have been alive today, perhaps with all the advancement that has been made, he may have thought differently

Reminds me of a quote I heard once...not sure who said it, but gee, a couple of notable people I have crossed swords with of late, should take heed of it.....

"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be"

In other words, leave your baggage and agenda at the door before indulging in solving the cosmological problems around us.

[coffeesippin]

39 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Yes, I used that earlier as a rebuttal to Beecee.

Thank you for the support, SJ.  * (Signifying the bright and morning star.)

[coffeesippin]

 " ... on the other hand, everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe—a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive.”^{[40]       Einstein}   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_views_of_Albert_Einstein

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals
himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."   

"It is only to the individual that a soul is given."     

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."                                  http://www.sfheart.com/einstein.html

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by coffeesippin
Included quotes from Einstein

[beecee]

On 11/23/2018 at 3:09 AM, mistermack said:

To be honest, I think Einstein just didn't want the label atheist. And maybe it was a wise move, in his day. Maybe still is, if you don't want to get involved. Your wiki link says it all really in on sentence : 

"He clarified however that, "I am not an atheist",^[4]preferring to call himself an agnostic,^[5] or a "religious nonbeliever."^[

I agree. He may have turned down the Presidency of Israel, but I believe he was a very diplomatic person as well as extremely humble. As I said earleir in the piece, if he was alive today and a young scientist, with the Internet, etc etc, he may be more forthright with his answer. 

The other problem as I showed above, is individuals taking what he said out of context.

http://barefootsworld.org/einsteinnote.html

This is an unrecorded letter, found in a private collection, from Albert Einstein, in which the theoretical physicist wrote of his religious beliefs.

This is the back side and closing of the letter.

Einstein penned the letter on January 3 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind, upon receipt of Gutkind's book "Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt." In this extraordinary letter Einstein writes,

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish"

“In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views.” (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000)

“My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality.”

 

The same as god throwing dice and throwing them where they cant be found analogy.

Edited December 6, 2018 by beecee

[jajrussel]

 Why is it always an argument about what Einstein thought and never about what Newton thought? 

[iNow]

Partially because Isaac was mad as a hatter.