Elemental level

[quiet]

[math]E=m \ C`2[/math] applies to all. Mean this all in the universe, at elemental level, is made of electromagnetic waves?

Edited December 3, 2018 by quiet

[Strange]

24 minutes ago, quiet said:

E=m C‘2 applies to all. Mean this all in the universe, at elemental level, is made of electromagnetic waves?

It applies to stationary objects with mass. For moving or massless things (eg photons) you need the full form of the equation: [math]E^2 = (mc^2)^2 + (pc)^2[/math] (where p is momentum)

Not everything is made of electromagnetic waves. I'm not sure why you would think that. For example, electrons are made of "electron waves" (if they are "made of" anything). Neutrinos don't even interact electromagnetically.

[Eise]

42 minutes ago, Strange said:

Not everything is made of electromagnetic waves. I'm not sure why you would think that.

I can imagine why. c is the velocity of light, light is an electromagnetic phenomenon, so everything should be electromagnetic. 

The correct way to see it however, is that c is the maximum velocity that is possible in the universe. It is so to speak the 'speed limit of causality'. And only particles (or waves, or... anything) that have no restmass travel at this speed. So c is more universal than just the velocity of light.

[Strange]

9 minutes ago, Eise said:

I can imagine why. c is the velocity of light, light is an electromagnetic phenomenon, so everything should be electromagnetic. 

Ah, that makes sense. (Or rather it doesn't.  )

I would say that c is just a conversion factor based on the arbitrary units we use for length, time, mass, energy, etc.

10 minutes ago, Eise said:

The correct way to see it however, is that c is the maximum velocity that is possible in the universe. It is so to speak the 'speed limit of causality'. 

So maybe the OP should be asking if everything is made of causality!

[quiet]

Only one more detail. If I think that everything, at the most elememtal level, is made of EM waves, e.g. , rotating in closed path EM waves (Bessel  functions, etc.), then will be natural that no thing can take translation movement faster than light, will be natural that particles complies De Broglie's condition of phase wavelength, wave-like behavior of particles, and, finally, mass/energy relationship.

Edited December 3, 2018 by quiet

[Strange]

48 minutes ago, quiet said:

Only one more detail. If I think that everything, at the most elememtal level, is made of EM waves, e.g. , rotating in closed path EM waves (Bessel  functions, etc.), then ...

But there is no reason to think that.

 

[Silvestru]

1 hour ago, quiet said:

Only one more detail. If I think that everything, at the most elememtal level, is made of EM waves, e.g. , rotating in closed path EM waves (Bessel  functions, etc.), then will be natural that no thing can take translation movement faster than light, will be natural that particles complies De Broglie's condition of phase wavelength, wave-like behavior of particles, and, finally, mass/energy relationship.

If this was true then  wouldn't everything travel at c?

Actually maybe not but how do you explain neutrons? They have no charge.

[quiet]

25 minutes ago, Strange said:

But there is no reason to think that.

 

One can expect that elemental level is not only a level of more little entities, but a level that corresponds to the simplest physical phenomenon, with the simplest complete system of physical laws, like EM system. If simplicity is needed and the simplest system works well, make sense a try in that direction?

12 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

how do you explain neutrons? They have no charge.

Help me reason. Can be neutral a rotating EM wave in closed path?

Edited December 3, 2018 by quiet

[Silvestru]

16 minutes ago, quiet said:

Help me reason. Is neutral a rotating EM wave in closed path?

Haha sorry quiet, I totally misunderstood your post and replied dazed and confused.
I mentioned charged but what I wanted to say is that some particles don't interact with the EM field. How could they be made of EM waves?

Also what about mechanical waves? What are they mad of? 

 

Here is a table of differences between electromagnetic waves and matter waves:

Electromagnetic waves	Matter waves
These waves have electric and magnetic fields associated with them.	Matter waves have no electric and magnetic fields associated with them.
These waves can easily pass through vacuum.	These waves cannot pass through vacuum.
These waves have fixed velocities.	Matter waves have velocities less than velocities of light and depend on situation.
Wavelengths of these waves can be measured easily.	Their wavelengths cannot be measured easily.
These rays are emitted from source in space.	These waves are associated with material particles ,they do not exist without material particles.
Energies of these waves are quantized.	Energies of these waves are not quantized.

[Strange]

29 minutes ago, quiet said:

One can expect that elemental level is not only a level of more little entities, but a level that corresponds to the simplest physical phenomenon, with the simplest complete system of physical laws, like EM system. If simplicity is needed and the simplest system works well, make sense a try in that direction?

But electromagnetic interactions can't explain how the atomic nucleus is held together (the strong force), why beta decay occurs (the weak force) or gravity.

29 minutes ago, quiet said:

Can be neutral a rotating EM wave in closed path?

An electromagnetic wave has no charge, so a bigger problem would be why electrons do have charge if they are made of electromagnetic waves. And why they have mass.

[quiet]

1 hour ago, Silvestru said:

Here is a table of differences between...

Nice table! Thank you very much! A question. Interacts between them two EM waves, or pass by the same region without affect one to other? If particles don't interact with EM waves, may occurs that particles are a kind of EM waves?

59 minutes ago, Strange said:

But electromagnetic interactions can't explain how the atomic nucleus is held together (the strong force), why beta decay occurs (the weak force) or gravity.

An electromagnetic wave has no charge, so a bigger problem would be why electrons do have charge if they are made of electromagnetic waves. And why they have mass.

Help me remember. Strong force is, in comparison terms, near 11 times more intense than EM force between two electron's charges. Can exist within the nucleous a kind of charge near 3.3 times bigger than electron's charge, in a way that the force between this kind of charges results in the order of strong force? The force between quarks iys independent of the distance, like capacitive force in the simplest case, when there is no border effect.

If exists a charge 3.3 times bigger than electron's charge, can be possible to think that electron's charge is a fraction of a broken 3.3e charge.

Edited December 3, 2018 by quiet

[Silvestru]

30 minutes ago, quiet said:

Nice table! Thank you very much! A question. Interacts between them two EM waves, or pass by the same region without affect one to other? If particles don't interact with EM waves, may occurs that particles are a kind of EM waves?

You are tricky I don't have time for a researched answer but as far as I know even other EM waves don't interfere directly with one another but  if you check the cross point for example, you get the superposition of both. Just because some particles don't interact electromagnetically is not enough to say that they are made of EM waves.

This is a bit of a fallacy. Two galaxies gravitate toward each other (are attracted to each other) and so do 2 magnets. So they must be attracting each other electromagnetically.

or A banana and an electron are both affected by gravity that means that the banana is solely made of electrons or the electron is a fruit.

Where did you get this idea? I am not experienced in this field but I have never heard of such a theory before. I am curious what made you assume this.

Just fun fact, electron density can be represented by the banana bond. (or Bent bond)

Below is just a literal depiction of banana bonds in cyclopropane. The fruits are for humour purposes only.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_bond

[Strange]

1 hour ago, quiet said:

A question. Interacts between them two EM waves, or pass by the same region without affect one to other? If particles don't interact with EM waves, may occurs that particles are a kind of EM waves?

Photons do not normally interact with other photons. However, they do interact with charged particles. That is the electromagnetic interaction.

1 hour ago, quiet said:

Strong force is, in comparison terms, near 11 times more intense than EM force between two electron's charges.

I don't know if you can really make a direct comparison like that. It will depend on the distance, for example: "At the range of 10⁻¹⁵ m (1 femtometer), the strong force is approximately 137 times as strong as electromagnetism" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_interaction)

1 hour ago, quiet said:

Can exist within the nucleous a kind of charge near 3.3 times bigger than electron's charge, in a way that the force between this kind of charges results in the order of strong force?

I don't understand the question.

The force holding the nucleus together is the residual strong force (which "leaks out" of the protons and neutrons). It falls off rapidly with distance, which is why large nuclei become unstable.

1 hour ago, quiet said:

If exists a charge 3.3 times bigger than electron's charge, can be possible to think that electron's charge is a fraction of a broken 3.3e charge.

What evidence do you have for a charge 3.3 times larger than the electron?

[swansont]

4 hours ago, quiet said:

Only one more detail. If I think that everything, at the most elememtal level, is made of EM waves, e.g. , rotating in closed path EM waves (Bessel  functions, etc.), then will be natural that no thing can take translation movement faster than light, will be natural that particles complies De Broglie's condition of phase wavelength, wave-like behavior of particles, and, finally, mass/energy relationship.

I'll take Strange's "there's no reason to think that" and go one further: there are reasons to not think that.

How do you get photons to behave this way, absent some other medium?

Photons are spin 1 particles. How would you come up with a half-integral spin?

Photons have no charge. How do you have charged particles?

2 hours ago, quiet said:

If exists a charge 3.3 times bigger than electron's charge, can be possible to think that electron's charge is a fraction of a broken 3.3e charge.

No free particle has been observed that fits that description. What we see are multiples of the fundamental charge, which is the amount the electron has.

[quiet]

I have supposed that the number of answers will be greater than the number of question that I would solve !!!

Now on serious. I can't answer more questions (for my ignorance). And I am greatful with all you. Best regards.

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by quiet