Dropping out of highschool

[zapatos]

9 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Most of the non-compete agreements I've seen are geared towards keeping workers from taking processes and internal information to a direct competitor. They're usually only good for a couple of years, since most companies grow and change enough  to make that info less valuable over time. These were also all agreements for sales positions, which may have completely different parameters.

This agreement is attached to a monetary investment in Raider's education. This isn't concern for proprietary information about the company. The owner may not see this as a potential threat from a competitor at all, but rather that he's paying to make Raider a better employee and wants to make sure he continues to be the employer. If he's a good businessman, he'll want Raider to be obligated for as long as possible, to improve the return on his investment. I'm just saying Raider should make sure the clause doesn't restrict him unnecessarily.

Agreed. And I'm not sure if we are just not focusing on the same point, but the owner seems to have made this specifically about a competitor (" Mainly that I can't use that degree to work at another company in the related field"), and thus my question about exactly what their company does.

If the owner is more concerned about who Raider may work for in the future and not simply that he pay back if he leaves, then that could be to Raider's benefit if the owner has few competitors.

[iNow]

1 hour ago, Raider5678 said:

I'll look into some local(ish) colleges and their online degree programs.

A potentially even better idea is to explore the admissions requirements of universities you might want to physically attend in the future (if the financial situation changes, of course).

Essentially, you could spend time and money completing online coursework for an accredited college with a great reputation and STILL be unable to transfer those credits when you explore a full-time university option later. 

For clarity, let's use CY's Penn State comment. Assume you take online courses through Penn. Surely, Penn will accept those credits. But what happens if later you decide to go to Pitt or to University of Illinois? Will THEY accept those online credits?

Recommend you need to explore those admissions requirements before you sit down and pay money and do a bunch of work online.

[CharonY]

10 minutes ago, iNow said:

A potentially even better idea is to explore the admissions requirements of universities you might want to physically attend in the future (if the financial situation changes, of course).

Essentially, you could spend time and money completing online coursework for an accredited college with a great reputation and STILL be unable to transfer those credits when you explore a full-time university option later. 

For clarity, let's use CY's Penn State comment. Assume you take online courses through Penn. Surely, Penn will accept those credits. But what happens if later you decide to go to Pitt or to University of Illinois? Will THEY accept those online credits?

Recommend you need to explore those admissions requirements before you sit down and pay money and do a bunch of work online.

That is a great point. It would be helpful to talk to contact admission advisors in target colleges. Transfers could be complicated which is why online only institutions are often not a great choice. 

29 minutes ago, zapatos said:

If the owner is more concerned about who Raider may work for in the future and not simply that he pay back if he leaves, then that could be to Raider's benefit if the owner has few competitors.

Even if he has, I do not actually think that the NCA can be tied to the degree itself, as it would be too broad. As Phi noted, it would need to be tied to the work there itself. But if there is no pay back clause, it may end up beneficial.

[Raider5678]

9 hours ago, zapatos said:

Agreed. And I'm not sure if we are just not focusing on the same point, but the owner seems to have made this specifically about a competitor (" Mainly that I can't use that degree to work at another company in the related field"), and thus my question about exactly what their company does.

By related field, I was referring to basically anything that the degree would specifically pertain to. Like computer programming.

 

I haven't actually seen the whole contract, and I probably won't until I'm actually in the position for them to do that, which includes getting my GED.

Additionally, the email was a lot more like "and you wont be able to use that degree to work at a different company for a while(I think around 8 years for a full college tuition)" then "Stipulation 1: The signer of this contract agrees to XYZ."

If I ever get the contract guys, don't worry, I"m smart enough to know I should read the entire thing before signing it.

9 hours ago, iNow said:

A potentially even better idea is to explore the admissions requirements of universities you might want to physically attend in the future (if the financial situation changes, of course).

I'd have to increase my income 15 fold for me to even consider a physical university. I'll look into it but I'm probably not going to spend abundant amounts of time researching credit transfer requirements, which schools they accept, what specific courses, etc.

 

I'm extremely opposed to taking out loans. I'm not looking for life advice that I shouldn't oppose that stuff, it's just a personal aversion to it that I also have no desire to over come. So if I were to attend a physical university I'd have to be able to pay for it fully(or while i'm attending), or have a scholarship. 

9 hours ago, CharonY said:

Even if he has, I do not actually think that the NCA can be tied to the degree itself, as it would be too broad. As Phi noted, it would need to be tied to the work there itself. But if there is no pay back clause, it may end up beneficial.

From what my boss said NCA's can usually be anything, as long as they're considered reasonable by a court. 

That being said, again, it was an email from my boss who was probably in a state of questionable sobriety considering he was just starting his holiday vacation, and it may be related to simply not working for a different employer of the same field, etc. I don't and won't know until I see the actual contract.

10 hours ago, Phi for All said:

This could be part of a larger non-compete clause. You really need to see the legalese on this agreement before you decide. Eight years is a long time for an NCA normally, but I've never signed one related to college tuition before. Remember, this is agreeing that you won't work for any competitors or start a competitive alternative for a period that's half your current lifetime. Make sure you know what you're agreeing to.

You need to know how strict this is, and exactly how it's worded. The big worry is that something goes sour/pear-shaped at this place in the next few years, and you're forced to stick with it because you can't take your skillset elsewhere. Make absolutely sure the parameters are precisely spelled out. Lots of boilerplate agreements can be too general, but can be changed if you voice your concerns reasonably. It's all negotiable until you sign your name.

Yes, I fully understand all of this.

Also guys, we are getting quite a bit ahead of ourselves.

The company will not be paying for any schooling if I don't get the position, and I won't get that position unless I get my GED, and I won't get my GED unless I drop out of high school.

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Raider5678

[iNow]

43 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

or have a scholarship. 

You should consider whether getting a scholarship is easier or harder with a GED versus a HS diploma, especially given the financial constraints under which you’re obviously working.

You strike me as an ideal scholarship candidate, but I have to imagine a GED would hinder that likelihood and make getting one harder to achieve. 

46 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

The company will not be paying for any schooling if I don't get the position, and I won't get that position unless I get my GED, and I won't get my GED unless I drop out of high school.

Random thought: Can you pursue a GED without dropping out? Is dropping out of school prerequisite for GED acquisition? 

[Raider5678]

2 minutes ago, iNow said:

You should consider whether getting a scholarship is easier or harder with a GED versus a HS diploma, especially given the financial constraints under which you’re obviously working.

I think it'd be easier, but that being said it doesn't strike me as particularly appealing, especially when I can get a job in the field that I want a job in now, with out having to go to college.

Now, I fully understand there are major differences, and neither is overwhelmingly better, but I prefer the path I've set myself up on as of now. Many of the people who work for this company for any significant amount of time and work hard get college degrees, certification in things like six sigma, and they get paid very well. Getting into this company alone took me well over a year of work and planning. 

It's a job I enjoy, something I get paid well to do, and something I look forward to doing every day. Quite frankly, giving that up to go to college seems extremely unappealing to me. So easier, yes. But certainly not the path I can honestly tell myself I'd be satisfied with.

[CharonY]

6 minutes ago, iNow said:

 

Random thought: Can you pursue a GED without dropping out? Is dropping out of school prerequisite for GED acquisition? 

Yes a prerequisite is not being in HS anymore. Which is why it is associated with dropping out.

[Raider5678]

7 minutes ago, iNow said:

Random thought: Can you pursue a GED without dropping out? Is dropping out of school prerequisite for GED acquisition? 

Nope, sadly. Same for the Hi-Set test, and my state doesn't offer an equivalency test either.

8 minutes ago, iNow said:

You strike me as an ideal scholarship candidate, but I have to imagine a GED would hinder that likelihood and make getting one harder to achieve. 

I'd imagine it would as well. That being said, passing up on this job to pursue a scholarship of questionable value doesn't seem to be an overwhelmingly better option either.

[iNow]

4 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Quite frankly, giving that up to go to college seems extremely unappealing to me. So easier, yes. But certainly not the path I can honestly tell myself I'd be satisfied with.

That’s fair, and I applaud your self-awareness, too. 

When viewed in terms of workforce issues, the core benefit of having a degree is a higher STARTING salary. This continues with each successive advancement... HS, Uni, graduate work... 

Two people. One job. The more educated one gets more money in each and every paycheck essentially every time.

Over the course of a lifetime, that translates into several hundred thousand (even millions of) dollars more before retirement. It’s a big difference that cascades to your offspring and over generations.

Same is true with MBAs. Lots of work up front, crazy hours and effort and money, and core benefit is little more than making tens of / hundred of thousands of dollars per year more than folks without one. 

[Raider5678]

Just now, iNow said:

When viewed in terms of workforce issues, the core benefit of having a degree is a higher STARTING salary. This continues with each successive advancement... HS, Uni, graduate work... 

I'm 16 and making $21 an hour with some serious benefits like health insurance(dental, vision, and all that other stuff included), end of year bonuses, and more.

I make more then a lot of college graduates already, and the company gives good raises every year. Additionally, this position would also bump up my pay to $29 an hour. The average wage for software engineers is $32, so I'm $3 below average. 

At 16. So take 6 years of raises(assuming going high school and college would mean I could have my degree at 22), and I'll be making $32 an hour(.50 yearly raise almost universally to everyone, though this isn't in contract).

Not a lot of college graduates can start at that wage. Additionally, I'd have 6 years of experience, 2 more years until that non compete contract would expire, and I think I'd be in a great position compared to a lot of graduates.

[iNow]

Oh, young padawan. Just wait until you stop thinking in terms of hourly wages and start think in terms of hiring bonuses, annual bonuses, and stock options... you’ll learn. 

[Raider5678]

2 minutes ago, iNow said:

Oh, young padawan. Just wait until you stop thinking in terms of hourly wages and start think in terms of hiring bonuses, annual bonuses, and stock options... you’ll learn. 

Boss said I was going to get around $6,000 in annual bonuses for this year so far. That's more then what I paid for my car.

 

But seriously, we keep getting off track.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Raider5678

[iNow]

4 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Boss said I was going to get around $6,000 in annual bonuses for this year so far. That's more then what I paid for my car.

Now... Imagine if you could make twice that every...single... month... 

Sorry. Don’t mean to drag you off-topic. Only hoping you can benefit from the experience of others.

I know folks like Zap made it work, but I’m well familiar with the GED stigma that’s out there having worked with recruiters for nearly two decades. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by iNow

[Raider5678]

37 minutes ago, iNow said:

Now... Imagine if you could make twice that every...single... month... 

I get it. I take the college path in the game of life, I have a good chance of making more money. Doesn't mean I'll have a job I'll enjoy, or a nice family, or not have to worry about money, or good friends, or get to live where I grew up and would like to stay for a while.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Raider5678

[iNow]

Yes, the idea above about higher starting salary overlaps heavily with the idea of compounding interest. 

And... Of course... Nothing is guaranteed. Our only chance is to maximize the odds of success. 

Considered another way... The universe throws enough harms and dangers into our face every single day as it is. There’s really no need to self-sabotage and help it along. 

All of it depends on ones perspective, I reckon.

In the long run we’re all dead. We all revert back to stardust. None of this matters... yet, it kinda does.

In the interim, remember that our brains can convince us of any damned silly thing. Logic is more rationalization than realization. Humans are funny creatures that way.  

Cheers. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by iNow

[Raider5678]

8 hours ago, iNow said:

In the long run we’re all dead. We all revert back to stardust. None of this matters... yet, it kinda does.

1

Well, I'm still one of those foolish Christians, so I have some more to look forward to then star dust.

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, Raider5678 said:

Well, I'm still one of those foolish Christians, so I have some more to look forward to then star dust.

Now is all there is...

10 hours ago, iNow said:

yet, it kinda does.

only when we're foolish enough to look forward or...

 

[Raider5678]

12 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

only when we're foolish enough to look forward or...

 

Only the foolish do not think ahead.

[Phi for All]

9 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Only the foolish do not think ahead.

Luck favors the prepared. --Edna Mode

23 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Now is all there is...

A stitch in time saves nine.

[Raider5678]

8 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Luck favors the prepared. --Edna Mode

A stitch in time saves nine.

Perhaps you have more insight then I do as to the riddle of Dimreepers posts?

[dimreepr]

9 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

A stitch in time saves nine.

 or goes critical

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

 or goes critical

Critical Stitch is the name of my new rock band.