Why are humans such idiots?

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, The_Questioner said:

It occurs to me, that the "great evil" is not per se our intellect, more that it is our emotion.
Greed, hate, distrust, ..., seems the base reason for our idiocy?

Too many people don't have a proper education, and so they rely overly on emotions. Emotions get things done, but perhaps we should focus more on using our intellects to decide our course, then strengthen those decisions with our passions, instead of the other way around.

I think it's too easy to label us idiots. We have a unique form of intelligence (as far as we know), and it has many consequences in our search for explanations and solutions.

[The_Questioner]

55 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Too many people don't have a proper education, and so they rely overly on emotions. Emotions get things done, but perhaps we should focus more on using our intellects to decide our course, then strengthen those decisions with our passions, instead of the other way around.

I think it's too easy to label us idiots. We have a unique form of intelligence (as far as we know), and it has many consequences in our search for explanations and solutions.

Maybe.
However, we use our intellect for mostly wrong reasons and actions.

Isn't that idiotic, then?
I mean, look at the state the world is in.

[Phi for All]

35 minutes ago, The_Questioner said:

Maybe.
However, we use our intellect for mostly wrong reasons and actions.

Isn't that idiotic, then?
I mean, look at the state the world is in.

You're generalizing. All people aren't idiots. The world is a mixture of the absurd and the sublime, and everything in between. If you choose to focus on idiocy, that's what you'll see.

If you focus on compassion, you'll see thousands of groups all over the world striving to embrace compassionate responses to many problems.

If you focus on freedom, you'll see people everywhere continuing the efforts of those who came before them to create fairness and liberty, and to stamp out oppression wherever they see it.

You think the world is in a horrible state, but I'm not sure what you're comparing it too. We're in the most peaceful period the world has ever known. There are fewer wars around the world than ever before. More people have an education than ever before. Many areas have far less pollution than they've had in the past. It may seem bad but it's been far worse. 

Personally, I think it's a bit idiotic to only look at the bad side of high intelligence. We're the only species capable of leaving the planet on our own, and eventually that might lead to a bigger respect for what we've got here.

[MigL]

The point is that we are intelligent enough to suppress our basic, animal ( natural ? ) instincts in a lot of cases, for the betterment of humanity. Other species, without our intelligence, regularly reproduce, outstrip their environment, and die in mass starvations.
We have the intellect to feed every person on this world, but for some, who cannot suppress their basic instincts, and would rather buy weapons than feed their people.
Not that all basic instincts are bad...
But if you already have enough, do you really need more while your neighbor has nothing ( greed ) ?
And self-preservation is a basic instinct; I certainly wouldn't suppress it, and cross the road without looking both ways.
Like everything else, balance and moderation.

Oh, and since sex drive is a basic instinct, do you suggest we should suppress homosexuality, as it does not lead to the betterment of the specie ?
( Heterosexuality has a purpose, reproduction. Homosexuality does not. )

Edited December 30, 2018 by MigL

[beecee]

3 hours ago, Phi for All said:

You're generalizing. All people aren't idiots. The world is a mixture of the absurd and the sublime, and everything in between. If you choose to focus on idiocy, that's what you'll see.

If you focus on compassion, you'll see thousands of groups all over the world striving to embrace compassionate responses to many problems.

If you focus on freedom, you'll see people everywhere continuing the efforts of those who came before them to create fairness and liberty, and to stamp out oppression wherever they see it.

You think the world is in a horrible state, but I'm not sure what you're comparing it too. We're in the most peaceful period the world has ever known. There are fewer wars around the world than ever before. More people have an education than ever before. Many areas have far less pollution than they've had in the past. It may seem bad but it's been far worse. 

Personally, I think it's a bit idiotic to only look at the bad side of high intelligence. We're the only species capable of leaving the planet on our own, and eventually that might lead to a bigger respect for what we've got here.

Well put.

Let me add, that while the human race certainly has a great deal of improvement to go, it most certainly has come a loooong way since the middle ages and the utter ignorance and carnage that existed then. We could even go back further to the other notable civilisations that did exist, like the Roam empire, the Egyptian empire etc.....slavery, ignorance, cruelty, racism, religiosity, etc all were far more wide spread and common then we see today.

Again while much desired improvement is needed, we have come a long way, and I believe that science and the application of the scientific method is largely responsible for that improvement, and while the improvement continues, albeit deathly slowly, I prefer to see the glass half full rather then half empty 

[The_Questioner]

19 hours ago, Phi for All said:

You're generalizing. All people aren't idiots. The world is a mixture of the absurd and the sublime, and everything in between. If you choose to focus on idiocy, that's what you'll see.

If you focus on compassion, you'll see thousands of groups all over the world striving to embrace compassionate responses to many problems.

If you focus on freedom, you'll see people everywhere continuing the efforts of those who came before them to create fairness and liberty, and to stamp out oppression wherever they see it.

You think the world is in a horrible state, but I'm not sure what you're comparing it too. We're in the most peaceful period the world has ever known. There are fewer wars around the world than ever before. More people have an education than ever before. Many areas have far less pollution than they've had in the past. It may seem bad but it's been far worse. 

Personally, I think it's a bit idiotic to only look at the bad side of high intelligence. We're the only species capable of leaving the planet on our own, and eventually that might lead to a bigger respect for what we've got here.

Well yes, and this I stated in the very first post: I am indeed generalizing!
Thank you for noticing, sir.

Surely there are many that actually try, actually do even, but FAR MORE seem to be not giving a flying fuck.

Or planet is in shambles, pollution up to, and over our ears, despite a 'peaceful time' hundreds still die by war, hunger, thirst, I mean, really?
Our planet is heating up, but we cary on as if our nose bleeds.
Trumpty-dumpty even gave the bird to all on that eco-conference 3 years ago, saying they were liars, imagining things.
And industry pumps out even more stuff today.
We by war-planes for billions, but we refuse to lave the thirsty, feed the hungry.

And the most baffling of all?
WE ALL put folks like this Trumpty-dumpty in power.
So, hell yes, in many a way we ALL are idiots, myself included, mind, sir.

And no, I do not just look at the bad side/effect of intelligence, but the global result.
As for leaving, sir, well, we will simply restart anywhere else what we did here.
Just in a different form.
Like we always have.
Locusts...

Thank you for your answer, sir.

16 hours ago, MigL said:

The point is that we are intelligent enough to suppress our basic, animal ( natural ? ) instincts in a lot of cases, for the betterment of humanity. Other species, without our intelligence, regularly reproduce, outstrip their environment, and die in mass starvations.
We have the intellect to feed every person on this world, but for some, who cannot suppress their basic instincts, and would rather buy weapons than feed their people.
Not that all basic instincts are bad...
But if you already have enough, do you really need more while your neighbor has nothing ( greed ) ?
And self-preservation is a basic instinct; I certainly wouldn't suppress it, and cross the road without looking both ways.
Like everything else, balance and moderation.

Oh, and since sex drive is a basic instinct, do you suggest we should suppress homosexuality, as it does not lead to the betterment of the specie ?
( Heterosexuality has a purpose, reproduction. Homosexuality does not. )

Precisely.

And who knows, homosexuality might even have a scientific, actual effective meaning, maybe it is nature's way to "stop overpopulation".
As we all know, 2 females or 2 males rarely reproduce, lol.
I would not be surprised, if this came to be a fact in the future...

Thank you for answering, sir!

 

16 hours ago, beecee said:

Well put.

Let me add, that while the human race certainly has a great deal of improvement to go, it most certainly has come a loooong way since the middle ages and the utter ignorance and carnage that existed then. We could even go back further to the other notable civilisations that did exist, like the Roam empire, the Egyptian empire etc.....slavery, ignorance, cruelty, racism, religiosity, etc all were far more wide spread and common then we see today.

Again while much desired improvement is needed, we have come a long way, and I believe that science and the application of the scientific method is largely responsible for that improvement, and while the improvement continues, albeit deathly slowly, I prefer to see the glass half full rather then half empty 

Completely agreeing here, sir!
We intelligent beings need to learn to act intellectually for once, something we have failed to do in say 200'000 years.
Which brings fear in my heart, NOT for me, for I am only one, but for the suffering, and our offspring, wherever they be in the future.

Remember that movie Equilibrium?
I've been thinking a lot about this, and yes, in it, we give up our passions such as love, friendship, but i wonder, would it not be a minor price to be paid for peace and prosperity?

Thank you for responding, sir.

 

 

To all: Happy Newyear:
May all the best that life offers be on your path, evermore.
And then some!

And my intellect FINALLY reign supreme and clean up the global mess we're in.

Edited December 31, 2018 by The_Questioner

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, The_Questioner said:

Well yes, and this I stated in the very first post: I am indeed generalizing!
Thank you for noticing, sir.

Surely there are many that actually try, actually do even, but FAR MORE seem to be not giving a flying fuck.

Or planet is in shambles, pollution up to, and over our ears, despite a 'peaceful time' hundreds still die by war, hunger, thirst, I mean, really?
Our planet is heating up, but we cary on as if our nose bleeds.
Trumpty-dumpty even gave the bird to all on that eco-conference 3 years ago, saying they were liars, imagining things.
And industry pumps out even more stuff today.
We by war-planes for billions, but we refuse to lave the thirsty, feed the hungry.

And the most baffling of all?
WE ALL put folks like this Trumpty-dumpty in power.
So, hell yes, in many a way we ALL are idiots, myself included, mind, sir.

And no, I do not just look at the bad side/effect of intelligence, but the global result.
As for leaving, sir, well, we will simply restart anywhere else what we did here.
Just in a different form.
Like we always have.
Locusts..

3

Think happy thoughts...

[The_Questioner]

Thank you, appreciate the answer. 

 

But it's hard, sir, i simply cannot ignore it, it is printed into my brain on the front, making that it overcomes any other thought.
Like a post-it on top of a staple files yelling to me.

Maybe I need to get me a few boxes of happy pills...  *sigh*

Edited December 31, 2018 by The_Questioner

[dimreepr]

7 minutes ago, The_Questioner said:

But it's hard, sir, i simply cannot ignore it, it is printed into my brain on the front, making that it overcomes any other thought

do what you can, then

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Think happy thoughts...

 

 

the glass is always full...

[The_Questioner]

8 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

do what you can, then

 

 

the glass is always full...

You, sir, are a fine person!
I am happy to have met you!

I respect everyone here, but you I like just a bit more.

[Itoero]

On ‎30‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 3:57 PM, dimreepr said:

I say you're wrong, so look.

You must know how this works

LMAO

On ‎30‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 4:15 PM, Strange said:

Which is just nonsense. It's from that old-school of psychology where people just made stuff up (see also Freud).

And I'm not aware of which bit of that says that people mainly kill for pleasure.

I'm correct, I'm talking against your emotions like usual.

 

I'll explain it one time. When people Kill animals for the fun they use on average firearms/ammunition and a hunting license...and you need transport to get those and you need transport to go hunting. And in most countries you need to follow a course to carry firearms. Hunting is a costly hobby. When you struggle to fulfill the basic physiological needs then you don't have access to 'those things' since they are to pricy and often not even available where you live (possible in rural communities).Many forms of hunting are for rich people.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Itoero

[dimreepr]

5 hours ago, Itoero said:

LMAO

I'm correct, I'm talking against your emotions like usual.

 

I'll explain it one time. When people Kill animals for the fun they use on average firearms/ammunition and a hunting license...and you need transport to get those and you need transport to go hunting. And in most countries you need to follow a course to carry firearms. Hunting is a costly hobby. When you struggle to fulfill the basic physiological needs then you don't have access to 'those things' since they are to pricy and often not even available where you live (possible in rural communities).Many forms of hunting are for rich people.

off topic and irrelevant

[Strange]

7 hours ago, Itoero said:

I'll explain it one time. When people Kill animals for the fun they use on average firearms/ammunition and a hunting license...and you need transport to get those and you need transport to go hunting. And in most countries you need to follow a course to carry firearms. Hunting is a costly hobby. When you struggle to fulfill the basic physiological needs then you don't have access to 'those things' since they are to pricy and often not even available where you live (possible in rural communities).Many forms of hunting are for rich people.

You have gone from the implausible "most people kill for pleasure" (because most people are psychopaths?) to the almost obvious "most people engage in hunting as a sport for pleasure". Nice goal post moving. I guess you thought no one would notice.

But if you want to talk about hunting, then I am pretty sure that most people in the world hunt for food and other necessities (which would place it fairly low down in in Maslow's Made Up Hierarchy). The fact that hunting for fun is difficult and expensive would seem to confirm that. 

[The_Questioner]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

You have gone from the implausible "most people kill for pleasure" (because most people are psychopaths?) to the almost obvious "most people engage in hunting as a sport for pleasure". Nice goal post moving. I guess you thought no one would notice.

But if you want to talk about hunting, then I am pretty sure that most people in the world hunt for food and other necessities (which would place it fairly low down in in Maslow's Made Up Hierarchy). The fact that hunting for fun is difficult and expensive would seem to confirm that. 

I agree, most indeed still hunt for needs, not just food, but skin, maybe even bone or teeth for some tribes, as some still tend to use this as tools.
Hunting as per your interpretation is indeed beyond most people's money bag.
Also, most choose not to kill in this form of sports.

Then again, many do kill for fun, or at least, I think it is a form of fun, not sure.
Many a soldier go to a warzone, thinking he's John bloody Rambo.
Arriving in the deep end though, they no longer are John bloody Rambo, but Shaun the crying Sheep.
War suddenly is no longer a night of CoD or whatever game they played, it became a tad more painful, for body and soul.
Not that easy, being a decent fella, and be forced to take one's life, one you never met.

And then, there are those, that do like this...
These are the ones that get me worried.
There must be something inherently wrong with them, I think.
A wrong connection in the brain, perchance?

But we all a wee part of guilty, all of us.
Remember that Bush fella?
"Oh, I heard, I think, theys has weapon of mucho pain and death.
We needz to invade thems.
We need precious!!"
And we simply believed that.
Well, they did find a lot of sand...

Our leaders keep bullshitting us, and we just nod, we do as told, and well... let's hope it did something good.
Which of course, in hindsight, did not.
Au contraire.

[dimreepr]

18 minutes ago, The_Questioner said:

Then again, many do kill for fun, or at least, I think it is a form of fun, not sure.

many do it for the hunt, not the kill e.g. fishing...

26 minutes ago, The_Questioner said:

Many a soldier go to a warzone, thinking he's John bloody Rambo.

and come home with PTSD

41 minutes ago, The_Questioner said:

And then, there are those, that do like this...
These are the ones that get me worried.
There must be something inherently wrong with them, I think.
A wrong connection in the brain, perchance?

 

yes, psychopaths and maybe sociopaths...

1 hour ago, The_Questioner said:

But we all a wee part of guilty, all of us.
Remember that Bush fella?
"Oh, I heard, I think, didn't has weapon of mucho pain and death.
We needz to invade thems.
We need precious!!"
And we simply believed that.

5

1 hour ago, The_Questioner said:

Our leaders keep bullshitting us, and we just nod, we do as told

I didn't, did you?

 

[The_Questioner]

No, a few are slightly smarter.
But only a few, I fear.

[dimreepr]

2 hours ago, The_Questioner said:

No, a few are slightly smarter.
only a few, I fear.

 

There's more than you think, comfy people don't rock the boat. But don't fear, the glass is always full...