The Border Wall or Fence

[iNow]

It’s the same they offered in December, but that was when they were in the minority so I understand your point

[Ten oz]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

It’s the same they offered in December, but that was when they were in the minority so I understand your point.

Ironically Trump may reject it anyway. It is a couple hundred million less than they offered him in December. So he might pushback against it.

Trump will be asking for more money this summer as part of the 2020 budget anyway. So this whole thing is far from over. After Obama had a single shutdown in 8yrs Trump may very well end up with 4 shutdowns in 3yrs. 

[iNow]

5 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Ironically Trump may reject it anyway.

Maybe, but I doubt it.

Trump is many things, but bad at reading public sentiment he is not... and he knows he was seen as a loser in the last shutdown fight, that the Republican Party as a whole suffered, and that they gained nothing by doing it. 

I see it far more likely that he’ll pick a new fight than that he’ll re-engage with this one. 

[Ten oz]

5 minutes ago, iNow said:

Maybe, but I doubt it.

Trump is many things, but bad at reading public sentiment he is not... and he knows he was seen as a loser in the last shutdown fight, that the Republican Party as a whole suffered, and that they gained nothing by doing it. 

I see it far more likely that he’ll pick a new fight than that he’ll re-engage with this one. 

I had expected he'd already would have moved on but he didn't. Sure I am not sure what to expect. We see within the next 3 days. 

[Ten oz]

I have to hand it to Trump on this Border Wall stuff. He really knows how to monopolize all the attention and time available. Republicans controlled every branch of Govt for 2yrs and nothing happened with Trump's wall. Soon as Democrats took over the House it's a national crisis that the Wall gets built. Trump is successful manipulating Congress's time and keeping people preoccupied with a completely made up issue.

After the longest shutdown in history Trump is now going to sign a Bill which gives him LESS money for a wall than what he was offered before the shutdown back in December. Next on deck he plans to declare a national emergency which in uncharted territory for funding a long term engineering project. This will surely run Congress in circles for months. It is terrifying for the nation that we have a President who is purposefully scheming to keep Congress dysfunctional for long as possible. Just does thing to intentionally waste as much of everyones time as humanly possible. Yet it is a brilliant strategy for Trump personally because it forces his opposition to expend time, resources, political capital, and etc fighting meaningless battles. 

Quote

 

President Trump will declare a national emergency to free up funding for border security measures along the southern border, in addition to signing a compromise bill that doesn't include as much funding as he wanted. 

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell announced Mr. Trump's intention from the Senate floor Thursday afternoon, which White House press secretary Sarah Sanders quickly confirmed. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mcconnell-says-trump-will-declare-a-national-emergency-for-border-wall/

 

 

[iNow]

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Trump is now going to sign a Bill which gives him LESS money for a wall than what he was offered before the shutdown back in December. Next on deck he plans to declare a national emergency

It will surely be blocked by the courts.

I think in times like these we should all take a step back and reflect on the wise words of one of our most grounded elder statesmen...

Donald J. Trump 5 years ago:

Trump in 2014: The president shouldn’t act unilaterally just “because he is unable to negotiate”

But your deeper point is right. He continues to distract us from the countless many other things that truly matter. 

[Ten oz]

6 minutes ago, iNow said:

It will surely be blocked by the courts.

I think in times like these we should all take a step back and reflect on the wise words of one of our most grounded elder statesmen...

Donald J. Trump 5 years ago:

Trump in 2014: The president shouldn’t act unilaterally just “because he is unable to negotiate”

But your deeper point is right. He continues to distract us from the countless many other things that truly matter. 

No doubt it will be block. I don't think this is about the border or a wall. Trump doesn't care about concrete things. This will keep his agenda in the headlines, waste loads of time in Congress, is enable more rallies.

[Airbrush]

When Trump visited the San Diego border wall samples, he said that the wall should be "see-thru"...so all the sample walls, except one, were not appropriate.

Then he stated that the current fence between San Diego and Tijuana was 95% effective at stopping illegal entry.  But it was "not doing the trick."  Also the many repairs made to holes cut through the fence didn't "look so good."  So we need a big, beautiful wall to be 99% effective at stopping illegal entry and look good doing it.

To me the word "wall" implies something more substantial than the fence that is there already.  That implies the "wall" project should replace current fencing with the superior "tall, powerful, beautiful wall."  Now congress says only the current style of fencing is permitted, and they agree to 55 more miles of fencing.  So NO MORE WALL, ONLY FENCING when needed.  And Trump declared a national emergency and boasts that he's still going to build a "wall."

"...The agreement included $1.375 billion for about 55 miles of new physical barriers -- based on pre-Trump era designs -- in the Rio Grande Valley sector."

https://ktla.com/2019/02/15/trump-to-declare-national-emergency-for-more-wall-funding-after-he-signs-border-deal-friday/

Edited February 15, 2019 by Airbrush

[iNow]

"I didn't need to do this," Trump said of the national emergency declaration, adding, "I just want to get it done faster, that's all."

[StringJunky]

21 minutes ago, iNow said:

"I didn't need to do this," Trump said of the national emergency declaration, adding, "I just want to get it done faster, that's all."

He''s a liar; not that that is anything new.

[Nod2003]

Out of curiosity, are any Democrats advocating removing those sections of wall which already exist?

[iNow]

No

[J.C.MacSwell]

Yes.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/02/15/beto-orourke-id-take-the-wall-down/23670633/

[iNow]

And?

[John Cuthber]

9 hours ago, StringJunky said:

He''s a liar; not that that is anything new.

To be fair, w can't rule out deluded, rather than dishonest.

[Ten oz]

2 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Yes.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/02/15/beto-orourke-id-take-the-wall-down/23670633/

Your link clearly states that O'Rourke was responding to a hypothetical question. It wasn't a position statement about policy. Also O'Rourke doesn't currently hold a political office nor is has he announced that he's running for anything. 

From your link:

Quote

O’Rourke, a Democratic former Texas congressman and candidate for Senate, responded in an interview with MSNBC’s Chris Hayes Thursday to a question tweetedby Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-Texas), who asked whether O’Rourke would make the city’s border wall disappear if he could.

 

2 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

To be fair, w can't rule out deluded, rather than dishonest.

This Emergency declaration is a smart move for Trump. It is a massive distraction which will both motivate his base and waste his oppositions time and energy. It is terrible for the nation but good for him personally. 

[John Cuthber]

6 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

This Emergency declaration is a smart move for Trump.

 

I agree; but, on this,he's plain wrong, so he's lying or deluded.

9 hours ago, iNow said:

"I didn't need to do this," Trump said of the national emergency declaration, adding, "I just want to get it done faster, that's all."

He did need to do it because Congress had blocked teh alternative.

Edited February 16, 2019 by John Cuthber

[J.C.MacSwell]

34 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Your link clearly states that O'Rourke was responding to a hypothetical question. It wasn't a position statement about policy. Also O'Rourke doesn't currently hold a political office nor is has he announced that he's running for anything. 

O'Rourke is not just a Democrat, he is one of those favoured to win the Democrat ticket...as of course you know.

34 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

 From your link:

This Emergency declaration is a smart move for Trump. It is a massive distraction which will both motivate his base and waste his oppositions time and energy. It is terrible for the nation but good for him personally. 

No doubt, but I would suggest better than another shutdown.

Edited February 16, 2019 by J.C.MacSwell

[Ten oz]

2 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

O'Rourke is not just a Democrat, he is one of those favoured to win the Democrat ticket...as of course you know.

He is favored to be a top VP choice. He is not favored to get the nomination nor has he announced he is even running for it. Also the link you provided was not of O'Rouke advocating a specific policy. O'Rouke was responding to a hypothetical question. 

[J.C.MacSwell]

2 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

He is favored to be a top VP choice. He is not favored to get the nomination nor has he announced he is even running for it. Also the link you provided was not of O'Rouke advocating a specific policy. O'Rouke was responding to a hypothetical question. 

He is one of those favoured to win the Democrat ticket.

[Ten oz]

27 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

I agree; but, on this,he's plain wrong, so he's lying or deluded.

There is no question he is a Liar. The breadth of his lies are so enormous they dumbfound me. Anyone who attempt to argue otherwise is either deluded themselves or holds great disrespect to common intelligence.   

That said Trump isn't wrong per se. Trump is a narcissistic. Anything that is useful to him personally is by default is the right thing to do. 

[J.C.MacSwell]

Second only to Harris here: https://www.oddsshark.com/other/2020-usa-presidential-odds-futures

[Ten oz]

1 minute ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

He is one of those favoured to win the Democrat ticket.

Fine, he is the single most favored candidate to win the Nomination. No candidate has ever been more favored in all of history. Rumor is Harris, Warren, Booker, and etc intend to drop out of the race later on today and endorse O'Rouke because everyone knows he is the Man. 

O'Rouke wasn't advocating anything in the link you provided. O'Rouke was answering a hypothetical question.

[J.C.MacSwell]

Just now, Ten oz said:

Fine, he is the single most favored candidate to win the Nomination. No candidate has ever been more favored in all of history. Rumor is Harris, Warren, Booker, and etc intend to drop out of the race later on today and endorse O'Rouke because everyone knows he is the Man. 

 

Why can you simply not accept that he is one of those favoured? Is it such a big deal to take a balanced position?

Not the most favoured, but second only to Harris, and ahead of both Warren and Booker here: https://www.oddsshark.com/other/2020-usa-presidential-odds-futures

It's not all or none at this point.

[iNow]

Just now, J.C.MacSwell said:

Why can you simply not accept that he is one of those favoured?

Because he hasn’t crossed the threshold of actually running. That’s a gating factor. If he doesn’t run, his odds are actually zero. 

(Barring a write in campaign and the marginal odds that would bring)