To join the military or be a doctor how high of IQ do you need?

[Bushranger]

3 hours ago, nymnpseudo said:

The weaker the IQ the better for the military.  As far as doctors go, a person with a normal iq who applies it will probably do better than a better with a high iq who is lazy.  

Although I was in the military in the early sixties, and certain jobs had higher I.Q. requirements, I don't know why that would have changed.  Therefore, not all jobs (MOS's) in the military would be open to hose with "weaker I.Q.'s".  Also, what do you mean by a "normal iq"?  100 is average.  If you have a high I.Q. (130 or higher), and you associated with persons with 100 (or thereabouts) I.Q.'s you would become aware (vocabulary, intestes, etc.) that a person with a 100 is not all that intelligent.  When it comes to scientists and such as medical doctors, a person with a "normal" I.Q. (i.e., 100) is unlikely to achieve such.  For instance, look at the bottom entires on this chart:  https://www.quora.com/What-are-good-jobs-for-people-with-a-90-98-IQ-Am-I-hopeless

[Outrider]

On 1/14/2019 at 1:36 PM, John Cuthber said:

It would be really nice to be able to say something like

"I think the question is meaningless.

The medical schools and army recruitment offices don't measure IQ (or, at least, I hope they don't) because it's not a measure of anything these employers are interested in.

IQ only measures how well you do in IQ tests.

No war was ever won, nor any patient cured by some soldier or doctor doing an IQ test."
But...

They do have a proxy measure for IQ, and they have  limits based on it.

https://www.quora.com/Does-the-U-S-military-have-a-minimum-IQ-requirement-for-entry

But, even that doesn't actually exclude any individual from joining- regardless of IQ

 

Well I served as a tele-type repairman and I took no such tests as mentioned on your quora link. I'll have to have something better than quora before I accept my memory is that bad.

This was in 1986. I remember physical tests, physical examinations and a physc test. Also you had to tell the doctor what kinds and how much of certain drugs you had ingested in the past. 

Boy was he surprised. 

[John Cuthber]

19 hours ago, Outrider said:

I served as a tele-type repairman

Does that count as "active duty"?

You don't need to believe Quora.

It was true before anyone posted about it there.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2010-title10/html/USCODE-2010-title10-subtitleA-partII-chap31-sec520.htm

[nymnpseudo]

On 2/12/2019 at 7:01 PM, Bushranger said:

Although I was in the military in the early sixties, and certain jobs had higher I.Q. requirements, I don't know why that would have changed.  Therefore, not all jobs (MOS's) in the military would be open to hose with "weaker I.Q.'s".  Also, what do you mean by a "normal iq"?  100 is average.  If you have a high I.Q. (130 or higher), and you associated with persons with 100 (or thereabouts) I.Q.'s you would become aware (vocabulary, intestes, etc.) that a person with a 100 is not all that intelligent.  When it comes to scientists and such as medical doctors, a person with a "normal" I.Q. (i.e., 100) is unlikely to achieve such.  For instance, look at the bottom entires on this chart:  https://www.quora.com/What-are-good-jobs-for-people-with-a-90-98-IQ-Am-I-hopeless

A high iq will tell a person that joining the military exposes that person to a higher chance of either being killed in war or killing someone who doesn't 'deserve' to be killed .. therefore becoming in any sense morally a murderer.   

[Endy0816]

6 hours ago, nymnpseudo said:

A high iq will tell a person that joining the military exposes that person to a higher chance of either being killed in war or killing someone who doesn't 'deserve' to be killed .. therefore becoming in any sense morally a murderer.   

You can choose a position away from direct combat. Part of my own logic, choosing Submarines and later on Communications. Nothing in life is totally risk free though.

 

On 2/13/2019 at 2:41 PM, John Cuthber said:

Does that count as "active duty"?

You don't need to believe Quora.

It was true before anyone posted about it there.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2010-title10/html/USCODE-2010-title10-subtitleA-partII-chap31-sec520.htm

Was a specialty once.

I know at one point the test was given during regular school hours. Be easy to forget.

[Bushranger]

7 hours ago, nymnpseudo said:

A high iq will tell a person that joining the military exposes that person to a higher chance of either being killed in war or killing someone who doesn't 'deserve' to be killed .. therefore becoming in any sense morally a murderer.   

The thread is about I.Q.s and/or intelligence required to enter the military and/or become a doctor.  Your post, which may or may not be true, seemingly has deviated from the issues and become (in your mind), become a psychological and a moral issue.  

[nymnpseudo]

18 hours ago, Bushranger said:

The thread is about I.Q.s and/or intelligence required to enter the military and/or become a doctor.  Your post, which may or may not be true, seemingly has deviated from the issues and become (in your mind), become a psychological and a moral issue.  

Then the only qualified answers are found with military sources and medical schools .. so why ask the question here?  The OP should have asked those sources and presented the findings here.  That the question was not written, 'To join the military or be a doctor how high of IQ do those professions say you need to enter.'  As it is written the original question is open, subject to interpretation.  

19 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

You can choose a position away from direct combat. Part of my own logic, choosing Submarines and later on Communications. Nothing in life is totally risk free though.

Submariners are exposed to incredibly high risks both from enemy action and failure of systems.  If a tank system fails the tankers can exit the tank.  If a submarine system fails while the sub is underwater the crew can easily be doomed.  Many medics are killed in combat.  It is probable that submarines with their nuclear missiles will be a first target even before declaration of war .. it is presumed that the Russians, for instance, with their far superior military technology, have small subs following the entire U.S. nuclear submarine fleet, and with 600 mph torpedoes a U.S. sub can be destroyed before they can release their ICBMs.  The Russians have also said they have missiles that can enter the water and destroy submarines deep underwater.  

In any case, when WW3 hits, it hits everyone, no one is safe anywhere .. it's a MAD MAD MAD MAD world.  

[Endy0816]

4 hours ago, nymnpseudo said:

Submariners are exposed to incredibly high risks both from enemy action and failure of systems.  If a tank system fails the tankers can exit the tank.  If a submarine system fails while the sub is underwater the crew can easily be doomed.  Many medics are killed in combat.  It is probable that submarines with their nuclear missiles will be a first target even before declaration of war .. it is presumed that the Russians, for instance, with their far superior military technology, have small subs following the entire U.S. nuclear submarine fleet, and with 600 mph torpedoes a U.S. sub can be destroyed before they can release their ICBMs.  The Russians have also said they have missiles that can enter the water and destroy submarines deep underwater. 

Kind of off topic here but... there are escape procedures. Hasn't been a US submarine lost in decades though. Stringent safety programs in place.

We have slightly greater numbers and Russia's navy is better geared for defense than offense. Main issue is their Diesel-Electrics' inability to remain submerged indefinitely. They are quiet running on batteries but have to surface at some point.

 

With the ASVAB(Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery), some sections might be broadly similar but others like, "Automotive and Shop Information" are clearly not.

Quote

• General Science (GS) – 16 questions in 8 minutes
• Arithmetic Reasoning (AR) – 16 questions in 39 minutes
• Word Knowledge (WK) – 16 questions in 8 minutes
• Paragraph Comprehension (PC) – 11 questions in 22 minutes
• Mathematics Knowledge (MK) – 16 questions in 20 minutes
• Electronics Information (EI) – 16 questions in 8 minutes
• Automotive and Shop Information (AS) – 11 questions in 7 minutes
• Mechanical Comprehension (MC) – 16 questions in 20 minutes
• Assembling Objects (AO) – 30 questions in 40 minutes
• Verbal Expression (VE)= (WK)+(PC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Services_Vocational_Aptitude_Battery#Computerized_test_format

 

But yes, you can do miserably low on an IQ test, and still make a stellar soldier or doctor. Maybe you had a poor test day or really applied yourself later.

 

[Curious layman]

I disagree with the statement that a low iq is a plus for the military, your underestimating the stress and the equipment the military has to use today, also the decisions they have to make under fire. You don't want people with a low iq doing this. Also the iq/standard they required from doctors will probably go up or down depending on situation, I imagine they wouldn't have to picky during the First World War for example.

 

thats a very interesting video too, seen it before, Found it very thought provoking.

sorry op says military or doctor not military doctor. My bad.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Curious layman

[zapatos]

AFAIK the military in the US does not use IQ testing at all. I'd be surprised if any military did although it's not something I have any first hand knowledge of.

[et pet]

On 1/11/2019 at 2:10 AM, nec209 said:

To join the military or be a doctor how high of IQ do you need?

The U.S. Military still uses the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) test. It is a Multiple Choice test.

Not really an Intelligence Quotient test.

More like a test that measures what abilities you have already acquired and tries to figure out how well you might do in different Occupational Specialties.

    found this : https://www.goarmy.com/learn/understanding-the-asvab.html

   " UNDERSTANDING THE ASVAB TEST AREAS

The ASVAB is a series of tests developed by the Department of Defense and is used by the U.S. Army to determine whether you have the mental aptitude to enlist. The ASVAB also helps determine which Military Occupational Specialties (MOS) you qualify for. The ASVAB is required to enlist in the U.S. Army and is valid for two years. The ASVAB may be given in a computerized version at a Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS) or in a paper version at various Military Entrance Test (MET) sites around the country or at high schools and colleges. 

ASVAB TEST AREAS

• General Science - measures knowledge of life science, earth and space science, and physical science
• Arithmetic Reasoning - measures ability to solve basic arithmetic word problems
• Word Knowledge - measures ability to understand the meaning of words through synonyms
• Paragraph Comprehension - measures ability to obtain information from written material
• Mathematics Knowledge - measures knowledge of mathematical concepts and applications
• Electronics Information - measures knowledge of electrical current, circuits, devices and electronic systems
• Auto and Shop Information - measures knowledge of automotive maintenance and repair, and wood and metal shop practices
• Mechanical Comprehension - measures knowledge of the principles of mechanical devices, structural support and properties of materials
• Assembling Objects - measures ability with spatial relationships

ASVAB SCORES AND AFQT SCORES

The AFQT score is the most important ASVAB score, because it determines if you can enlist in the U.S. Army. However, the U.S. Army also converts the ASVAB test scores into 10 other composite score areas known as "line scores" that determine what MOS an individual may qualify for. Listed below are the parts of the ASVAB that affect your AFQT test scores and each of the ten line scores.

• Armed Forces Qualification Test (AFQT) - Paragraph Comprehension, Word Knowledge, Mathematics Knowledge, and Arithmetic Reasoning.
• Clerical (CL) – Word Knowledge, Paragraph Comprehension, Arithmetic Reasoning and Mathematics Knowledge.
• Combat (CO) - Word Knowledge, Paragraph Comprehension, Auto & Shop and Mechanical Comprehension.
• Electronics (EL) – General Science, Arithmetic Reasoning, Mathematics Knowledge and Electronic Information.
• Field Artillery (FA) - Arithmetic Reasoning, Mathematics Knowledge and Mechanical Comprehension.
• General Maintenance (GM) – General Science, Auto & Shop, Mathematics Knowledge and Electronics Information.
• General Technical (GT) - Word Knowledge, Paragraph Comprehension and Arithmetic Reasoning (AR).
• Mechanical Maintenance (MM) – Auto & Shop, Mechanical Comprehension and Electronic Information.
• Operators and Food (OF) - Word Knowledge, Paragraph Comprehension, Auto & Shop and Mechanical Comprehension.
• Surveillance and Communications (SC) - Word Knowledge, Paragraph Comprehension, Arithmetic Reasoning, Auto & Shop and Mechanical Comprehension.
• Skilled Technical (ST) - Word Knowledge, Paragraph Comprehension, General Science, Mechanical Comprehension and Mathematics Knowledge. "

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by et pet

[swansont]

There is an excellent chance that the ASVAB would not be required of someone who had already graduated from medical school and wished to join the military.

I did not have to take it when I joined the navy; the requirements for joining the nuclear power program tended to cull marginal candidates. Med school would similarly act as a filter.