You think you've got problems America...

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, John Cuthber said:

No, in  the general election.
He supported Remain in the referendum, but changed sides... repeatedly.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/how-boris-johnson-has-changed-his-views-on-europe

So, over nearly 20 years he's not allowed to evolve his thoughts? Hardcore Labour seats were lost yesterday and  that says much about the state of the party. Go to the Guardian site, a left leaning paper, which gives a quite lucid assessment of what went wrong for them. People are pissed off with Brexit and have no confidence in Corbyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/13/theyre-getting-their-just-desserts-how-traditional-voters-ditched-labour

 

This post relates to your earlier assertion that two-thirds voted againt Brexit in this election:

Here's the numbers for this election. Explain to me how you arrived at two thirds voted against Brexit in this election. I'm not disagreeing yet because I don't know how you arrived at that fraction.

"Two-thirds of the UK electorate - 47,587,254 in total - cast their vote at the 2019 General Election, down slightly on the 2017 election.

Swathes of traditional Labour supporters appear to have swapped their loyalties for the Conservatives, with 13,905,520 voters in total casting their vote in favour of Johnson's party - up from 13,636,684 in 2017.

This dwarfed Labour's total of 10,282,632, dropping from 12,878,460 in 2017.

Despite losing a seat, the Liberal Democrats saw an increase in votes across the board, winning 3,662,297 of the popular vote - up from 2,371,910.

The Scottish National Party (SNP) saw a dramatic growth in their popular vote, increasing from 977,569 to 1,242,380".  - iNews

Edited December 13, 2019 by StringJunky

[iNow]

48 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

People are pissed off with Brexit and have no confidence in Corbyn

The reports coming across my feeds suggest that this vote was all about Brexit, and that Corbyn sort of hid from that fact. It made him look weak and like he wasn't being honest. I'm unsure how accurate that is, but I've heard the narrative now across a few different and distinct sources.

In essence, they're saying Corbyn talked about healthcare and expanding other social programs and benefits, but sort of "wussed out" on the topic of Brexit... too afraid of offending either side, and it didn't play well.

[StringJunky]

27 minutes ago, iNow said:

The reports coming across my feeds suggest that this vote was all about Brexit, and that Corbyn sort of hid from that fact. It made him look weak and like he wasn't being honest. I'm unsure how accurate that is, but I've heard the narrative now across a few different and distinct sources.

In essence, they're saying Corbyn talked about healthcare and expanding other social programs and benefits, but sort of "wussed out" on the topic of Brexit... too afraid of offending either side, and it didn't play well.

Yes. He was evasive.The Guardian link I put in pretty much reflects my thoughts, which it appears is reflected across the country. Labour or Tory, people have had enough. More people than in the past this time have voted along non-partisan lines and voted for what they want to see done now, on a personal basis. Just like I did. This pretty much was a pragmatic vote  by many and that's what swung it in Boris's favour. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by StringJunky

[MigL]

Any way you look at it, You Brits compounded a bad decision with another one.
I get the impression people didn't vote in support of Brexit, but in support of ending the instability and indecisiveness of the last three years.
Basically they were fed up with the whole thing.

My opinion of Brexit has always been akin to 'throwing out the baby with the bathwater'.

[StringJunky]

51 minutes ago, MigL said:

Any way you look at it, You Brits compounded a bad decision with another one.
I get the impression people didn't vote in support of Brexit, but in support of ending the instability and indecisiveness of the last three years.
Basically they were fed up with the whole thing.

My opinion of Brexit has always been akin to 'throwing out the baby with the bathwater'.

I've read several times from Labour supporters they are fed up with the issue and that the result of the referendum should be respected. I think even though we may be heading out, there will still be a lot of alignment with Europe. I don't think, in the end, Brexit will be as severe as some people fear.

[John Cuthber]

On 12/13/2019 at 7:09 PM, StringJunky said:

So, over nearly 20 years he's not allowed to evolve his thoughts?

If it was 20 years since he flip flopped, you would have a point.
But it isn't,so...
 

 

On 12/13/2019 at 7:09 PM, StringJunky said:

...no confidence in Corbyn.

Tautologically true- since he lost. But unhelpful.

Why didn't they have any trust in Corbyn?

He is the most successful leader of the opposition in history. (Having just successfully opposed more government votes than any other).

He was re-elected  in his own constituency- where they presumably know what he's like.

 

Do you think it might be anything to do with this sort of thing?
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-12-06/88-of-conservative-ads-on-facebook-misleading/

On 12/13/2019 at 9:00 PM, MigL said:

I get the impression people didn't vote in support of Brexit, but in support of ending the instability and indecisiveness of the last three years.
Basically they were fed up with the whole thing.

Yes, and somebody sold them the lie that Boris was going to stop the uncertainty. In fact he was the one guaranteed to continue it.
Brexit will not be over at the end of January- that's just the lie he and his cronies told.

 

On 12/13/2019 at 9:58 PM, StringJunky said:

I've read several times from Labour supporters they are fed up with the issue and that the result of the referendum should be respected.

At the 2016 referendum roughly two thirds of Labour party voters voted to remain.
The Leave side cheated in that referendum.
They should have re-run it.

If it had been legally binding, there would have been a rerun.  But, because the  outcome was "advisory" they didn't have teh authority to force a repeat- and police it better to stop Leave cheating this time.

 

On 12/13/2019 at 9:58 PM, StringJunky said:

I don't think, in the end, Brexit will be as severe as some people fear.

OK, that depends on the weasel words "some people".

It's hard to see how we will avoid the destruction of the NHS for a start. That's presumably worse than most people expected

 

 

On 12/13/2019 at 8:19 PM, StringJunky said:

Yes. He was evasive.

You do know which one it was that literally hid in the fridge to avoid reporters, don't you?

And which one didn't show up at his own hustings...?

And which one didn't actually appear on the party leaders' debate on climate ?

And which one refused to be interviewed?

[MigL]

If things don't go as well as Stringy believes...
Do you guys have impeachment over in the UK ?

[dimreepr]

2 hours ago, MigL said:

Do you guys have impeachment over in the UK ?

we have prisons, does that count?

[Phi for All]

52 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

we have prisons, does that count?

Let's talk about those after the US fixes your healthcare and education systems. 

[Endy0816]

6 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

It's hard to see how we will avoid the destruction of the NHS for a start. That's presumably worse than most people expected.

Agreed between compounding the labor shortages and drug prices I can't see it being sustainable at present levels of service.

I would have also thought WTO being down would have given leavers pause but apparently not. Any country can slap tarrifs on the UK specifically with no repercussions beyond the UK's own response.

[dimreepr]

On 12/15/2019 at 11:20 AM, John Cuthber said:

It's hard to see how we will avoid the destruction of the NHS for a start. That's presumably worse than most people expected

were up shit Creek and Trump's selling the paddles.

and boris is ashore, yelling to us that it's a good deal.

Edited December 24, 2019 by dimreepr

[Sensei]

On 1/21/2019 at 4:46 PM, StringJunky said:

If we have a second referendum, subsequent ones will mean little. I voted to stay but lost. Given we voted to leave, I would vote leave to honour the first vote. I feel the consequences of a second vote will hurt the UK far longer than leaving Europe. Our global reputation depends on being actively democratic and consistent...it's a matter of honour.

(I understand you)

...some people even commits suicides talking about honour...

Brits committed sort of economical and political "suicide" by choosing to leave EU.. Now UK products will be less competitive on European markets. But they will still have to follow EU regulations to be accepted for sale on EU markets, without UK being able to have any inflence on these regulations.. Ain't plain stupid?

If there would be referendum to jump off a cliff (this is what Brexit reminds me), would you still support it in second referendum again just to act honourfully?

 

In Europe there was no serious war for over half century just because everybody integrated, assimilated, made friendships and families, made economical connections, living in peace, harmony and cooperation. And now you (UK) want to destroy all the effort put in making peace not war... Separated countries play to their own national goals.. 

We know whose influence divides us...

[StringJunky]

11 hours ago, Sensei said:

(I understand you)

...some people even commits suicides talking about honour...

Brits committed sort of economical and political "suicide" by choosing to leave EU.. Now UK products will be less competitive on European markets. But they will still have to follow EU regulations to be accepted for sale on EU markets, without UK being able to have any inflence on these regulations.. Ain't plain stupid?

If there would be referendum to jump off a cliff (this is what Brexit reminds me), would you still support it in second referendum again just to act honourfully?

 

In Europe there was no serious war for over half century just because everybody integrated, assimilated, made friendships and families, made economical connections, living in peace, harmony and cooperation. And now you (UK) want to destroy all the effort put in making peace not war... Separated countries play to their own national goals.. 

We know whose influence divides us...

The ball is rolling and all that's history.

[dimreepr]

10 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

The ball is rolling and all that's history.

Indeed and we'll know tomorrow if the cat's alive or...