What made you stop believing in God?

[swansont]

On 5/9/2019 at 7:17 AM, swansont said:

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Moderator Note

A reminder that the topic of this thread is "What made you stop believing in God?"

Discussions about how you still believe in God are off-topic.

 

 

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Moderator Note

This is still the case. Off-topic posts have been removed.

 

[SerengetiLion]

7 hours ago, DrP said:

Was in my 40s.

I was 51 damn years old when I finally wised up. How I wish I would have been much younger when I realized. So for 51 years of my life I lived a lie. That pisses me off.

[koti]

For me it was no specific thing, it was a process that took untill I was around 30 years old. In retrospect, I also think that I never believed in God, I just had problems with admitting it to myself and people around me and that changed when I was around 30.

[Danijel Gorupec]

2 hours ago, SerengetiLion said:

I was 51 damn years old when I finally wised up.

For some reason, I find this truly remarkable.

 

1 hour ago, koti said:

For me it was no specific thing, it was a process that took untill I was around 30 years old. In retrospect, I also think that I never believed in God, I just had problems with admitting it to myself and people around me and that changed when I was around 30.

What I learned on the SFN, and what surprised me, is that most atheists are former believers. I, however, never had that 'privilege' - I am what I call a 'native atheist'.

One consequence of never being in a position to abandon a religion is, I guess, that if someone is to ask me why I am an atheist, I would not be very good in giving a rational explanation. I think I would go with an argument of sense and beauty: I just feel, deeply inside, that any idea of God is just too odd, too awkward. Where should I put him? Wherever I tried to put him, he just did not fit.

[koti]

2 minutes ago, Danijel Gorupec said:

For some reason, I find this truly remarkable.

 

What I learned on the SFN, and what surprised me, is that most atheists are former believers. I, however, never had that 'privilege' - I am what I call a 'native atheist'.

Human mind is remarkably moldable, upbringing and the environment it happens in are gigantic factors. I was lucky with the upbringing and not so lucky with the environment...there are people who had luck with both, when asked about faith/religion/god they answer that they never gave it much thought, its just not relevant to them (for example Edward Witten who spent all his life in a scientific environment)

7 minutes ago, Danijel Gorupec said:

One consequence of never being in a position to abandon a religion is, I guess, that if someone is to ask me why I am an atheist, I would not be very good in giving a rational explanation. I think I would go with an argument of sense and beauty: I just feel, deeply inside, that any idea of God is just too odd, too awkward. Where should I put him? Wherever I tried to put him, he just did not fit.

Sense and beauty sounds like a very good argument to me.

[CharonY]

12 minutes ago, Danijel Gorupec said:

What I learned on the SFN, and what surprised me, is that most atheists are former believers. I, however, never had that 'privilege' - I am what I call a 'native atheist'.

I think it is simply because of a) time and b) location. A few decades ago religiosity was considered the norm in most Western countries (and even now it is still about 50% or quite higher, depending on country). While my family was not particularly religious, in German elementary school I had only two choices, protestant or catholic. So by chance most folks are likely to grow up at least somewhat religious and then shed it when they became older and not simply embedded in a somewhat religious system. 

[beecee]

22 hours ago, beecee said:

Interesting. From my position, it was more a realization of the power, logic and sensibility of science, that drove me to want to know more. As that knowledge grew, as the logic of scientific theories and explanations dawned on me, I seemingly unconsciously just accepted the logic of science, the scientific method as far more realistic. 

Adding to my above comment, there was no specific time line, more just a gradual realization, as one gains life experiences and general knowledge, much as a child gradually doubts the beliefs in Santa Claus and the Easter bunny.

[koti]

1 hour ago, CharonY said:

...in German elementary school...

That explains your excelent command of keeping your cool in every situation in the forums, your flawless coherency and orderly conduct  

Edited May 28, 2019 by koti

[DrP]

11 hours ago, Danijel Gorupec said:

I would go with an argument of sense and beauty: I just feel, deeply inside, that any idea of God is just too odd, too awkward. Where should I put him? Wherever I tried to put him, he just did not fit.

Not a scientific reasoning then, just the feels? - That's the same argument a lot of believers use to justify their belief. "Look at the beauty of the world, listen to your heart and decide, I can't possibly see a world without a god".  

 

15 hours ago, SerengetiLion said:

I was 51 damn years old when I finally wised up. How I wish I would have been much younger when I realized. So for 51 years of my life I lived a lie. That pisses me off.

You've got to forgive yourself and move on. ;-) There are a lot of good things in Christianity - the ability to forgive others and yourself is one of those things. It is understandable why people believed it for so long like CharonY said:

11 hours ago, CharonY said:

I think it is simply because of a) time and b) location. A few decades ago religiosity was considered the norm in most Western countries

...so why would you have expected to believe anything else? It was what you were taught. It was pretty normal for people to believe it.  

[Strange]

1 hour ago, DrP said:

Not a scientific reasoning then, just the feels? - That's the same argument a lot of believers use to justify their belief. "Look at the beauty of the world, listen to your heart and decide, I can't possibly see a world without a god".  

Of course. The existence of gods is not scientifically decidable. Belief or non-belief is not a rational decision (even if someone justifies their opinion that way, post hoc - which both believers and non-believers do). It is like what music or food you like: a combination of experience and character

[DrP]

7 minutes ago, Strange said:

 The existence of gods is not scientifically decidable. Belief or non-belief is not a rational decision

If such an entity classed/defined as a god (the creator of our universe or something) chose to interact and communicate with us and make itself know then why would that not be scientifically decidable? If it is then it is testable and observable unless it is hiding.  I disagree and would state that you can use logic and scientific reasoning when looking for a god. Especially if it is one defined in a religious book. It is trivially easy to scientifically test the claims of religious books and show them to be untrue for example.

 

 

[swansont]

50 minutes ago, DrP said:

If such an entity classed/defined as a god (the creator of our universe or something) chose to interact and communicate with us and make itself know then why would that not be scientifically decidable?

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Moderator Note

This is not the question being discussed. Feel free to start a new thread if you wish.

 

[DrP]

Just now, swansont said:

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Moderator Note

This is not the question being discussed. Feel free to start a new thread if you wish.

 

Playing advocate - it IS a reason that many STOP believing in god (which is on topic). The 'no show' of god and whether its existence is 'scientifically decidable' or not is very relevant to why people stop believing in god or not, no?

 

 

[Strange]

38 minutes ago, DrP said:

If such an entity classed/defined as a god (the creator of our universe or something) chose to interact and communicate with us and make itself know then why would that not be scientifically decidable?

If such a god existed, it would be. Meanwhile back on Earth ...

[swansont]

4 minutes ago, DrP said:

Playing advocate - it IS a reason that many STOP believing in god (which is on topic). The 'no show' of god and whether its existence is 'scientifically decidable' or not is very relevant to why people stop believing in god or not, no?

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Moderator Note

Then they are free to say that if it's their reason. The OP asks individuals why they stopped believing. It does not ask one to speculate why others might stop.

IOW, as in most situations here, your answers and questions should be directed, in some way, at the OP, rather than raising a new issue to be discussed. 

 

[DrP]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

If such a god existed, it would be.

Which it isn't - which is why people stop believing in it.  You don't have to rely on 'feeling' to come to a conclusion.

1 minute ago, swansont said:

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Moderator Note

Then they are free to say that if it's their reason. The OP asks individuals why they stopped believing. It does not ask one to speculate why others might stop.

IOW, as in most situations here, your answers and questions should be directed, in some way, at the OP, rather than raising a new issue to be discussed. 

 

Someone DID say this was their reason though. They wrote it in this thread as an answer to the OP as to why they stopped or did not believe in god and said it was due to their 'feeling' that it was not there. I just mentioned as a natural extension of the conversation that this was the same reason that many give for actually believing... did you read the thread at all?

 

 

[koti]

29 minutes ago, DrP said:

Which it isn't - which is why people stop believing in it.  You don't have to rely on 'feeling' to come to a conclusion.

Someone DID say this was their reason though. They wrote it in this thread as an answer to the OP as to why they stopped or did not believe in god and said it was due to their 'feeling' that it was not there. I just mentioned as a natural extension of the conversation that this was the same reason that many give for actually believing... did you read the thread at all?

 

 

Sense and beauty as a reason is not the same as just beauty.

[swansont]

57 minutes ago, DrP said:

Which it isn't - which is why people stop believing in it.  You don't have to rely on 'feeling' to come to a conclusion.

Someone DID say this was their reason though. They wrote it in this thread as an answer to the OP as to why they stopped or did not believe in god and said it was due to their 'feeling' that it was not there. I just mentioned as a natural extension of the conversation that this was the same reason that many give for actually believing... did you read the thread at all?

!

Moderator Note

“If such an entity classed/defined as a god (the creator of our universe or something) chose to interact and communicate with us and make itself know then why would that not be scientifically decidable?” is a NEW line of discussion, and does not address the OP. It is a hijack. I don’t think this is a difficult concept.

Also not difficult: modnotes are not an invitation to a debate. Unless a response is requested, you do not respond to them in the thread. 

 

[dimreepr]

I'm not sure if I ever did despite my family being devout Christians and my school being a CofE but the last and, possibly, the only time I considered the question, was when my parents informed me (at around 10yo) that I didn't have to go to church.

[SerengetiLion]

4 hours ago, DrP said:

Not a scientific reasoning then, just the feels? - That's the same argument a lot of believers use to justify their belief. "Look at the beauty of the world, listen to your heart and decide, I can't possibly see a world without a god".  

 

You've got to forgive yourself and move on. ;-) There are a lot of good things in Christianity - the ability to forgive others and yourself is one of those things. It is understandable why people believed it for so long like CharonY said:

...so why would you have expected to believe anything else? It was what you were taught. It was pretty normal for people to believe it.  

What I realized also is that we don't need to believe there's a god to be good, nor a devil to be bad. All those years I thought it was my belief in god that made me do good and not do bad but I haven't changed in that sense. Anyway I came to my own conclusion there was no god having no input from anyone on the subject. Another thing is when I believed in god I was prejudice somewhat toward other people but now I'm not. I think it's so ignorant for people to pray to god thinking all things will be handled by this (non existent) being and until everyone comes to this realization that no such being exists it's up to us to make this world a better place.

[dimreepr]

12 minutes ago, SerengetiLion said:

I think it's so ignorant for people to pray to god thinking all things will be handled by this (non existent) being and until everyone comes to this realization that no such being exists

People who believe aren't (always) lying, and I think it's arrogant to think others are ignorant because they believe something you don't.

17 minutes ago, SerengetiLion said:

it's up to us to make this world a better place.

And we need all the help we can get... 

 

[et pet]

 To : dimreeper, DrP, swansont ,

   When I Posted : "I have never stopped believing in god and I am well beyond my 30's and 40's!" , I was being 100% Honest in answering the question posed in the OP : "What made you stop believing in God?"!

    It would be Literally Impossible for me to "stop believing in" any "God" or any "santa claus" or any "easter bunny" or any "honest politician" or any other non-existent fictional creation simply because I have NEVER STARTED TO BELIEVE in any "God" or any "santa claus" or any "easter bunny" or any "honest politician" or any other non-existent fictional creation IN THE FIRST PLACE!

   I thought that I had expressed that correctly and clearly by Posting "god"(all LOWER CASE!), instead of "God"(Capitalized!).

  This thread has brought up a couple issues : 

   1. Why does it seem to be assumed/taken for granted by the Moderator, swansont, that any and all who Post on scienceforums.net  must "still believe in God " because they have neither had any reason, nor any ability, to STOP "believing in God"? After all, there must be quite a number of people, like myself, that were never burdened with having to STOP simply because they NEVER STARTED BELIEVING IN THE FIRST PLACE!?  

   2.  Why, if scienceforums.net is a real Science Site, were NO Scientific Methods utilized to determine if the Hypothesis/Assumption that the statement "I have never stopped believing in god and I am well beyond my 30's and 40's!" actually means or is the same as the statement I "still believe in God" was correct?

 

   dimreepr and DrP,  I apologize that our discussion was wrongly nixed/interrupted due to what seems to be the failure of any application of Real Scientific Methods on what is supposed to be a Real Science Site!

 

   swanson,  you have, once again, clearly shown and exercised your abilities and capabilities...As such, I must concur with the question DrP asked of you in this Thread : 

On 5/29/2019 at 6:50 AM, DrP said:

 did you read the thread at all?

[swansont]

1 hour ago, et pet said:

 To : dimreeper, DrP, swansont ,

   When I Posted : "I have never stopped believing in god and I am well beyond my 30's and 40's!" , I was being 100% Honest in answering the question posed in the OP : "What made you stop believing in God?"!

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Moderator Note

It’s still off-topic, if you aren’t answering the question. You’re admitting that the circumstances don’t apply to you. The question was clearly addressed to people that believed, and then stopped.

Posting to argue about it is off-topic as well.

 

 

[Mubarek posedion]

When i was 5 i thought i was a prophet but in school they told me the last prophet  lived 1500 year ago.When i heard this,my faith was shaken.

Years past by and  i managed to reach 12.Until 12 never seriously thing about god but one day i read a book and i get suspicious about god.

So i decided to test god it was simple:i was going to ask God for easy things like wind blowing,see a butterfly this sort of things but eventually god didn't do anything and i stoped to believing god. 

 

Sorry for my bad English i still try to learn.

[iNow]

3 hours ago, Mubarek posedion said:

Sorry for my bad English i still try to learn.

Your post is clear. No apology required. 

God is mostly just an idea in our head. A part of ourselves we talk to when our actual self doesn’t feel like enough.