New Study Confirms No Connection Between MMR and Autism

[StringJunky]

Quote

Measles, Mumps, Rubella Vaccination and Autism: A Nationwide Cohort Study

 

Abstract

Background:
The hypothesized link between the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism continues to cause concern and challenge vaccine uptake.

Objective:
To evaluate whether the MMR vaccine increases the risk for autism in children, subgroups of children, or time periods after vaccination.

Design:
Nationwide cohort study.

Setting:
Denmark.

Participants:
657 461 children born in Denmark from 1999 through 31 December 2010, with follow-up from 1 year of age and through 31 August 2013.

Measurements:
Danish population registries were used to link information on MMR vaccination, autism diagnoses, other childhood vaccines, sibling history of autism, and autism risk factors to children in the cohort. Survival analysis of the time to autism diagnosis with Cox proportional hazards regression was used to estimate hazard ratios of autism according to MMR vaccination status, with adjustment for age, birth year, sex, other childhood vaccines, sibling history of autism, and autism risk factors (based on a disease risk score).

Results:
During 5 025 754 person-years of follow-up, 6517 children were diagnosed with autism (incidence rate, 129.7 per 100 000 person-years). Comparing MMR-vaccinated with MMR-unvaccinated children yielded a fully adjusted autism hazard ratio of 0.93 (95% CI, 0.85 to 1.02). Similarly, no increased risk for autism after MMR vaccination was consistently observed in subgroups of children defined according to sibling history of autism, autism risk factors (based on a disease risk score) or other childhood vaccinations, or during specified time periods after vaccination.

Limitation:
No individual medical charts were reviewed.

Conclusion:
The study strongly supports that MMR vaccination does not increase the risk for autism, does not trigger autism in susceptible children, and is not associated with clustering of autism cases after vaccination. It adds to previous studies through significant additional statistical power and by addressing hypotheses of susceptible subgroups and clustering of cases.

Full Text: https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2727726/measles-mumps-rubella-vaccination-autism-nationwide-cohort-study

[John Cuthber]

Sadly,, I don't think another study will make much difference

The ones who think "it's a conspiracy" will still think that.

Logic didn't convince them before; why would it now?

[StringJunky]

7 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Sadly,, I don't think another study will make much difference

The ones who think "it's a conspiracy" will still think that.

Logic didn't convince them before; why would it now?

That's true.

[QuantumT]

6 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Sadly,, I don't think another study will make much difference

The ones who think "it's a conspiracy" will still think that.

Logic didn't convince them before; why would it now?

It matters to rational people.

The rest give their kids a Darwin Award.

[Arete]

When anti-vaxxers will prefer to believe a former Scientologist who literally claims to be an alien god when he tells them to put industrial bleach up children's backsides to cure their autism, there isn't much hope for logic. 

 

[CharonY]

10 minutes ago, Arete said:

When anti-vaxxers will prefer to believe a former Scientologist who literally claims to be an alien god when he tells them to put industrial bleach up children's backsides to cure their autism, there isn't much hope for logic. 

 

The good news is that some of the folks involved in racket of poisoning kids and sick people have been sentenced. But the sad news is that folks promoting that crap are getting off free.

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, Arete said:

When anti-vaxxers will prefer to believe a former Scientologist who literally claims to be an alien god when he tells them to put industrial bleach up children's backsides to cure their autism, there isn't much hope for logic. 

 

 

45 minutes ago, CharonY said:

The good news is that some of the folks involved in racket of poisoning kids and sick people have been sentenced. But the sad news is that folks promoting that crap are getting off free.

Wow. It  illustrates how polarised the scientifically-literate from the illiterate are. It's a shame science is quite a hard subject for many.

[Akmose]

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Wow. It  illustrates how polarised the scientifically-literate from the illiterate are. It's a shame science is quite a hard subject for many.

Its not a problem of science, its a problem of trust. Once Its lost you have to work to get it back. Attacking the intelligence of the people will not help the medical establishment show how vaccinations have save lives.

Think of the people as customers at a buisness. Its bad buisness to call you customers idiots. You have to sell the benefits of your product. 

Sorry saved lives.

 

[StringJunky]

41 minutes ago, Akmose said:

Its not a problem of science, its a problem of trust. Once Its lost you have to work to get it back. Attacking the intelligence of the people will not help the medical establishment show how vaccinations have save lives.

Think of the people as customers at a buisness. Its bad buisness to call you customers idiots. You have to sell the benefits of your product. 

Sorry saved lives.

 

Did I call them idiots or anything disparaging? No. I was being purely factual. I assume you know I meant scientifically-illiterate. Maybe 'scientifically-naive' would make you feel better.

Edited March 6, 2019 by StringJunky

[Phi for All]

13 hours ago, Akmose said:

Its not a problem of science, its a problem of trust. Once Its lost you have to work to get it back. Attacking the intelligence of the people will not help the medical establishment show how vaccinations have save lives.

But the basis of true trust is accurate information. The anti-vaxxer movement is ignorant, misinformed, and relies on emotional arguments over intellectual ones. How do you gain the trust of someone who believes emotional lies over scientific facts? What's wrong with pointing out that you don't know about things you don't know about? 

13 hours ago, Akmose said:

Think of the people as customers at a buisness. Its bad buisness to call you customers idiots. You have to sell the benefits of your product. 

Medicine in general is a poor candidate for business models. But even in a business, don't customers come to you for expertise? And when it comes to life and death situations, don't the benefits outweigh the fears? Medical professionals shouldn't have to persuade their clients that immunization is trustworthy. If the complications from measles and whooping cough were as visible to the masses as the complications from polio, I doubt we'd have this problem. Even the idiots stood in line three times to get Salk's vaccine on a sugar cube so they wouldn't end up crippled.

 

[peterwlocke]

it is sad. but it is modern day eugenics(except volunteering is out of stupidity(i mean you would rather your child die then take what you believe with no evidence causes autism)).

edit: just thought to add I am doing better than the majority of kids at my school and I am even doing science out of school and I have autism I mean it is not that bad.

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by peterwlocke

[Arete]

15 hours ago, Akmose said:

Its not a problem of science, its a problem of trust. Once Its lost you have to work to get it back. Attacking the intelligence of the people will not help the medical establishment show how vaccinations have save lives.

Think of the people as customers at a buisness. Its bad buisness to call you customers idiots. You have to sell the benefits of your product. 

Sorry saved lives.

 

Undoubtedly the pharmaceutical industry has to shoulder some of the blame for the public mistrust in them - I mean, the link between opioid prescription and industry payments to doctors is pretty solidly established. There is a deep rooted problem in capitalizing healthcare and medicine which is particularly pervasive in the US. 

However, this is doubled up by actual conmen and snake oil salesmen taking advantage of that mistrust to defraud people - which is how the anti-vax movement started.   

[John Cuthber]

I read somewhere that "in ancient China" you paid your doctor when you were well, and stopped paying if you became ill.

[koti]

18 hours ago, Akmose said:

Its not a problem of science, its a problem of trust. Once Its lost you have to work to get it back. Attacking the intelligence of the people will not help the medical establishment show how vaccinations have save lives.

Think of the people as customers at a buisness. Its bad buisness to call you customers idiots. You have to sell the benefits of your product. 

Sorry saved lives.

 

I have some „unsold customers” as you portray them in my close family and I do think they’re idiots. Not because they’re risking their own health and lives but because they are risking health and lives of children who cannot decide for themselves and are completely helpless. I guess you could call them unfit parents or potential child murderers or complete, utter morons too. 

[Akmose]

4 hours ago, koti said:

I have some „unsold customers” as you portray them in my close family and I do think they’re idiots. Not because they’re risking their own health and lives but because they are risking health and lives of children who cannot decide for themselves and are completely helpless. I guess you could call them unfit parents or potential child murderers or complete, utter morons too. 

I would guess that most of them don't know how many people/kids used to die from the diseases that vaccinations prevent. 

To some extent the success of vaccination programs in the US has removed peoples fear of disease.

9 hours ago, Phi for All said:

But the basis of true trust is accurate information. The anti-vaxxer movement is ignorant, misinformed, and relies on emotional arguments over intellectual ones. How do you gain the trust of someone who believes emotional lies over scientific facts? What's wrong with pointing out that you don't know about things you don't know about? 

Medicine in general is a poor candidate for business models. But even in a business, don't customers come to you for expertise? And when it comes to life and death situations, don't the benefits outweigh the fears? Medical professionals shouldn't have to persuade their clients that immunization is trustworthy. If the complications from measles and whooping cough were as visible to the masses as the complications from polio, I doubt we'd have this problem. Even the idiots stood in line three times to get Salk's vaccine on a sugar cube so they wouldn't end up crippled.

 

Medicine in general is a poor candidate for a business model.

Very true sometimes you work yourself out of a job. When people are dropping dead from some illness then you have demand. Once you stop that you stop the demand. 

Medical professionals shouldn't have to persuade their clients that immunization is trustworthy.

The only other option would be to use force. And that would only make people not trust you (and the vaccine) even more. No one likes to be told what to do, even you probably.

 

[Phi for All]

23 minutes ago, Akmose said:

Very true sometimes you work yourself out of a job. When people are dropping dead from some illness then you have demand. Once you stop that you stop the demand. 

Business models treat medicine as something to be prolonged for maximum profit. In the US, when a cure for polio was discovered, there were many physicians who objected because it ruined their businesses treating the symptoms. Illness and suffering shouldn't be evaluated with the same plans used for unlimited growth.

23 minutes ago, Akmose said:

The only other option would be to use force. And that would only make people not trust you (and the vaccine) even more. No one likes to be told what to do, even you probably.

Education is the better option. It's a civic responsibility to make sure you do your part to keep everyone in your community safe from harm. Immunization is just as smart as trash removal and cleaning public lavatories. You probably aren't required to serve in the armed forces, but citizens do have other duties to each other. I don't mind being told to wash my hands, don't litter, drive on the correct side of the road, be quiet in the library, cover your mouth when you sneeze. Vaccinations should be thought of in those terms, and not with the weird conspiratorial paranoia the anti-vaxxers use.

[Akmose]

47 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Business models treat medicine as something to be prolonged for maximum profit. In the US, when a cure for polio was discovered, there were many physicians who objected because it ruined their businesses treating the symptoms. Illness and suffering shouldn't be evaluated with the same plans used for unlimited growth.

Education is the better option. It's a civic responsibility to make sure you do your part to keep everyone in your community safe from harm. Immunization is just as smart as trash removal and cleaning public lavatories. You probably aren't required to serve in the armed forces, but citizens do have other duties to each other. I don't mind being told to wash my hands, don't litter, drive on the correct side of the road, be quiet in the library, cover your mouth when you sneeze. Vaccinations should be thought of in those terms, and not with the weird conspiratorial paranoia the anti-vaxxers use.

Every day you'll see ads on tv for some product, don't really matter what. The ad will state that the product is "all natural". Everyday people are told natural = good. This creates a bias, natural = good, and man made = bad. If you look this argument is everywhere. 

So all it takes is to say vaccinations are man made. And the preconditioning takes over. 

You place some miss trust in the medical establishment. Its not hard to understand why people believe what's being sold.

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

Business models treat medicine as something to be prolonged for maximum profit. In the US, when a cure for polio was discovered, there were many physicians who objected because it ruined their businesses treating the symptoms. Illness and suffering shouldn't be evaluated with the same plans used for unlimited growth.

Education is the better option. It's a civic responsibility to make sure you do your part to keep everyone in your community safe from harm. Immunization is just as smart as trash removal and cleaning public lavatories. You probably aren't required to serve in the armed forces, but citizens do have other duties to each other. I don't mind being told to wash my hands, don't litter, drive on the correct side of the road, be quiet in the library, cover your mouth when you sneeze. Vaccinations should be thought of in those terms, and not with the weird conspiratorial paranoia the anti-vaxxers use.

Yes. Being "pro-choice" in this matter as though the consequences are only to oneself is as absurd as it irresponsible; there is only one ethical position to being a potential  vector for a communicable disease or not.

Edited March 7, 2019 by StringJunky

[Akmose]

29 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Yes. Being "pro-choice" in this matter as though the consequences are only to oneself is as absurd as it irresponsible; there is only one ethical position to being a potential  vector for a communicable disease or not.

In the end you'll lose both battles. Sometimes its not what you say but how you say it.

[StringJunky]

10 minutes ago, Akmose said:

In the end you'll lose both battles. Sometimes its not what you say but how you say it.

In the face of bullshit, it needs to be blunt and factual; a bit like the picture warnings on cigarette packets. Just my opinion.

[Akmose]

There's a reason politicians run things not scientists. Book smart, people dumb. Just my opinion.

There is no picture on cigarette container in America, you must be Canadian. 

[koti]

4 hours ago, Akmose said:

There is no picture on cigarette container in America, you must be Canadian. 

Theres no picture on cigarette containers in Ukraine, you must be Ukrainian. 

[beecee]

8 hours ago, Akmose said:

Medical professionals shouldn't have to persuade their clients that immunization is trustworthy.

 Of course they should. A general education program supported by Medical professionals, as to the proven benefits of vaccinations and the baseless nutty conspiracy  scare tactics by the anti vaxers should be spread across the airwaves. Sadly, many people are prone to mythical and conspiracy nonsense, that oppose mainstream, in reality for reason of opposition, for opposition sake, then any real genuine fear.

Quote

The only other option would be to use force. And that would only make people not trust you (and the vaccine) even more. No one likes to be told what to do, even you probably.

The better option is hit them in the hip-pocket. In my country government welfare operates on a "no jab, no pay" plan, plus of course those children [other then for certified medical conditions or reasons] that are not vaccinated are barred from kindergarten and care centers.

Edited March 7, 2019 by beecee

[Phi for All]

9 hours ago, Akmose said:

There's a reason politicians run things not scientists. Book smart, people dumb. Just my opinion.

In the case of the public health, or for things the politicians can't get the people to support (like the end of slavery in the US), sometimes leadership has to listen to their best and brightest minds (the supposedly "people dumb" folks) and simply insist it's in all our best interests to take a decisive step. Some stupidities are worth a civil war if they can be fixed forever. Is that really what you call "people dumb"? Or is it perhaps the only way to deal with certain issues? 

I think when dealing with dumb people like anti-vaxxers, trying to be people-smart has shown itself to be completely ineffective. They'll only catch on when their children stop dying from easily preventable diseases, but by then they'll be blaming something else.

[dimreepr]

10 hours ago, Akmose said:

There's a reason politicians run things not scientists.

and that's good because?

10 hours ago, Akmose said:

Book smart, people dumb. Just my opinion.

Try reading one...