How did homosexuality evolve?

[Itoero]

How did homosexuality evolve?

It's present in other animals as well.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

[Sensei]

2 minutes ago, Itoero said:

How did homosexuality evolve? It's present in other animals as well

It's at least third thread about the same subject in the last half year. So instead of copying and pasting the same text, I will better give you links:

 

[iNow]

Pleasure for sex itself evolved. The generation of that pleasure is not object or gender specific, per se.

Edited March 14, 2019 by iNow

[StringJunky]

Evolutionarily, If you take one breeder out of the breeding equation you can use them to assist in the upbringing of their siblings offspring, which can significantly improve the survival of the group. That group will carry the genes of the gay individual, and so the gay gene perpetuates.

In Somoan culture it's considered a third gender: https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/the-evolutionary-paradox-of-homosexuality/

Edited March 14, 2019 by StringJunky

[Ken Fabian]

I think the sexual urge in humans is not precisely targeted - perhaps cannot be given that there is not a clear fertile oestrus period and a lot of sex is needed to result in reproductive success. There are a variety of potential triggers that have little or nothing to do with fertility - and yet it is a strong urge that can also be socially disruptive, especially for those who do not have socially sanctioned mates; outlets for that sex urge that do not provoke conflict include masturbation and homosexuality. I think homosexuality reduced sexual conflict and aided overall social bonding within groups of early humans.

It seems clear that homosexual inclination or preference does not necessarily prevent hetero sex - lots of 'gay' people have and want to have children and can have hetero relationships to enable that - so only more extreme forms that prevent successful hetero sex would be unable to reproduce; less extreme forms do not get written out of the genome.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Ken Fabian

[MigL]

For the trait to have evolved, means it needs to be coded genetically.
AFAIK there is no gay gene, but I'm far from an expert on the matter, so there could be various gene combinations which result in homosexuality.
Other factors which affect us are hormonal/enzyme changes while in the womb, and environment/upbringing.

It could depend on any of these factors, or combinations thereof.

Edited March 15, 2019 by MigL

[Raider5678]

3 minutes ago, MigL said:

AFAIK there is no gay gene, but I'm far from an expert on the matter, so there could be various gene combinations which result in homosexuality.

I read a paper on someone supposedly finding a "gay" gene which was referenced by numerous politicians, etc. However, it didn't pass peer review for reasons I forget. Something to do with confirmation bias, not so much actually proving it to be a gay gene. As for genetic structures, that's yet to be proven/disproven.

[rangerx]

38 minutes ago, MigL said:

AFAIK there is no gay gene, but I'm far from an expert on the matter, so there could be various gene combinations which result in homosexuality.
Other factors which affect us are hormonal/enzyme changes while in the womb, and environment/upbringing.

It could depend on any of these factors, or combinations thereof.

Sexual dimorphism is the condition where the two sexes of the same species exhibit different characteristics beyond the differences in their sexual organs. The condition occurs in many animals and some plants. Differences may include secondary sex characteristics, size, weight, color, markings, and may also include behavioral and cognitive differences.

Several species marine invertebrates and fishes change sexes in their lifetimes. Although some species exhibit sequential hermaphroditism, it's not necessarily observed observed in humans (no less homosexual humans), but that's not to say there isn't at least some factor(s) which affect behavior. For example, some would attest being gay since birth, while others may discover it later in life, subsequent to an otherwise heterosexual lifestyle.

1 hour ago, Raider5678 said:

I read a paper on someone supposedly finding a "gay" gene which was referenced by numerous politicians, etc. However, it didn't pass peer review for reasons I forget. Something to do with confirmation bias, not so much actually proving it to be a gay gene. As for genetic structures, that's yet to be proven/disproven.

It was cooked up by homophobes, particularly one's "of faith"

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/queer-notions-how-christian-homophobes-misuse-my-gay-gene-report/

Here's a spoof on the topic.

 

 

[Sensei]

Just now, rangerx said:

Sexual dimorphism is the condition where the two sexes of the same species exhibit different characteristics beyond the differences in their sexual organs. The condition occurs in many animals and some plants. Differences may include secondary sex characteristics, size, weight, color, markings, and may also include behavioral and cognitive differences.

Several species marine invertebrates and fishes change sexes in their lifetimes. Although some species exhibit sequential hermaphroditism, it's not necessarily observed observed in humans (no less homosexual humans), but that's not to say there isn't at least some factor(s) which affect behavior. For example, some would attest being gay since birth, while others may discover it later in life, subsequent to an otherwise heterosexual lifestyle. 

But difference between animals and plants, and homosexual humans, is such that 100% homosexual people usually have no children, so can't spread their genes (if their homosexuality was result of some genetic mutation) for further generations, so eventual mutation immediately ends up on them. I am interpreting and extending original Itoero question "How did homosexuality evolve?" like it would be "How did homosexuality evolve when we know that homosexual people usually don't have offspring, so it can't be result of genetic evolution?"..

And I answered how it happens in 2nd post. Scientists who found influence of testosterone (and other hormones) during development of embryo, in the wrong moment of development, even made such experiments: drilled little holes in chicken eggs, used syringe with testosterone and injected it, then observed sexual behavior of newly hatched chickens.. and 100% of them were homosexual.. Experiment was repeated couple times, always with the same results.

Single egg human twins can also have different sexual orientation. If you compare their DNA they are nearly the same. So it can't be result of genetic mutation.

[rangerx]

2 minutes ago, Sensei said:

But difference between animals and plants, and homosexual humans, is such that 100% homosexual people usually have no children, so can't spread their genes

As mentioned earlier, some late bloomers (for lack of a better term) may have lived otherwise heterosexual lives, with offspring.

Would that suggest spontaneous onset or would it be thrown back to an otherwise recessive factor?

[dimreepr]

23 hours ago, Itoero said:

How did homosexuality evolve?

It did not, as mentioned above.

[Itoero]

I've read that environmental/cultural factors can have an effect on sexual orientation. But true sexual orientation is due to some regions in the hypothalamus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INAH_3https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_dimorphic_nucleus

 

1 hour ago, Sensei said:

How did homosexuality evolve when we know that homosexual people usually don't have offspring, so it can't be result of genetic evolution?"..

It can be. In evolution you can have survival of the fittest gene pool....especially for animals that live in groups. I'm a fan of the gay uncle theory.

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Itoero

[Itoero]

1 hour ago, rangerx said:

As mentioned earlier, some late bloomers (for lack of a better term) may have lived otherwise heterosexual lives, with offspring.

Homosexuality imo used to be more discriminated then it is now.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Itoero

[Sensei]

7 minutes ago, Itoero said:

Homosexuality imo used to be more discriminated then it is now.

They simply had to hide in the past.. not revealing their true orientation to public, as it could lead them even to sentence to death.. Even in modern times, in Syria thousands of people were murdered recently accused to be homosexual.

[Raider5678]

8 hours ago, rangerx said:

Would that suggest spontaneous onset or would it be thrown back to an otherwise recessive factor?

It could just be in their head. There's no particular reason we need to prove that same-sex people are somehow a different type of human then we are.

[John Cuthber]

On 3/15/2019 at 5:06 PM, Itoero said:

Homosexuality imo used to be more discriminated then it is now.

When?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome
On the other hand, it was forbidden in the UK by the Victorians.

It's one of those things that goes in and out 

of fashion.

On 3/15/2019 at 11:35 PM, Raider5678 said:

It could just be in their head.

Well, it's unlikely to be in their elbow.

[Itoero]

On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 6:19 PM, Sensei said:

They simply had to hide in the past.. not revealing their true orientation to public, as it could lead them even to sentence to death.. Even in modern times, in Syria thousands of people were murdered recently accused to be homosexual.

 

1 hour ago, John Cuthber said:

When?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome
On the other hand, it was forbidden in the UK by the Victorians.

It's one of those things that goes in and out 

of fashion.

There are many exceptions but it seems, on average people are more tolerant. Same sex marriage is on the rise...

Edited March 17, 2019 by Itoero

[dimreepr]

10 minutes ago, Itoero said:

Same sex marriage is on the rise...

Tell that to a dolphin...

[Itoero]

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 5:01 PM, dimreepr said:

Tell that to a dolphin...

I did. Dolphins can live in super pods with a huge number of dolphins. I wonder about the social structure of  a super pod.

[dimreepr]

15 hours ago, Itoero said:

I did. Dolphins can live in super pods with a huge number of dolphins. I wonder about the social structure of  a super pod.

the Kids swim around getting high on puffer fish.

Edited March 20, 2019 by dimreepr

[Raider5678]

On 3/17/2019 at 10:16 AM, John Cuthber said:

Well, it's unlikely to be in their elbow.

If it was in their genes, wouldn't it be in their elbow as well? 

[John Cuthber]

On 3/17/2019 at 4:01 PM, dimreepr said:

Tell that to a dolphin...

I am no longer welcome at the local zoo.

[dimreepr]

2 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

I am no longer welcome at the local zoo.

It's not cool to interfere with nature...   

[John Cuthber]

4 hours ago, dimreepr said:

It's not cool to interfere with nature...   

Is that a comment on me, or on zoos, or people who talk to dolphins?

Edited March 24, 2019 by John Cuthber

[koti]

7 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

I am no longer welcome at the local zoo.

Did you try to free the apes?