Electrons in orbit in the atom

[geordief]

I think I have heard   that if there is an energetic input into an atom  then a constituent  electron (or electrons?)  will  move to a higher energetic level  in the atom.

 

Am I to see this as the same electron (s?) moving from one level to another  or should I imagine the  first electron disappearing  from the first level and the second electron materializing at the different level?  Would it be the global state that determines the local state? 

 

Also is it correct to see the locations of the electrons in their levels as being determined by probability waves and not waves in space (or should that be spacetime?)

[Strange]

1 hour ago, geordief said:

Am I to see this as the same electron (s?) moving from one level to another  or should I imagine the  first electron disappearing  from the first level and the second electron materializing at the different level? 

As electrons are indistinguishable, I don't think these two can be distinguished. But there isn't really any reason think that it is not a particular electron moving to a higher energy level. (It might also be possible to describe in statistical terms as all of the electrons spending some proportion of their time at the higher energy level, I don't now.)

(I'll leave someone else to comment on the last part as it is so long since I did anything with electron orbitals... )

[studiot]

1 hour ago, geordief said:

I think I have heard   that if there is an energetic input into an atom  then a constituent  electron (or electrons?)  will  move to a higher energetic level  in the atom.

 

I think I have heard   that if there is an energetic input into an atom  then a constituent  electron (or electrons?)  will  may be able to move to a higher energetic level  in the atom.

1 hour ago, geordief said:

Am I to see this as the same electron (s?) moving from one level to another  or should I imagine the  first electron disappearing  from the first level and the second electron materializing at the different level?  Would it be the global state that determines the local state? 

 

The process of moving to a greater energy is called excitation.

Excitation does not involve dematerialisation and subsequent rematerialisation.

Note I said greater energy not a higher energy level. There is a hint of an unwarranted link with geometry using the word level and higher or lower, which can lead to misunderstandings.

1 hour ago, geordief said:

Also is it correct to see the locations of the electrons in their levels as being determined by probability waves and not waves in space (or should that be spacetime?)

Don't mix up levels, energy, probability and waves.

Again it's the route to confused .com

Treat them separately. (My advice)

[swansont]

19 hours ago, geordief said:

I think I have heard   that if there is an energetic input into an atom  then a constituent  electron (or electrons?)  will  move to a higher energetic level  in the atom.

It can, if you have added the correct amount of energy.

19 hours ago, geordief said:

Am I to see this as the same electron (s?) moving from one level to another  or should I imagine the  first electron disappearing  from the first level and the second electron materializing at the different level?  Would it be the global state that determines the local state? 

It's the state of the atom, but it's often referred to as the state of the electron, owing to residual classical notions we have. If you boosted a satellite into a higher orbit, you usually say it's the satellite that has the energy, but in truth potential energy is shared between the earth and the satellite.

With atoms it's different, because there is no trajectory to observe. The electron is a wave, and we don't know what happens during the excitation. There isn't a way to test/observe what's going on.

19 hours ago, geordief said:

Also is it correct to see the locations of the electrons in their levels as being determined by probability waves and not waves in space (or should that be spacetime?)

There are two waves involved here. The probability wave (wave function), and the DeBroglie (matter) wave. They are not the same thing. 

[geordief]

Suppose there are a number of electrons at various locations (at the same energetic level) in the atom,is the probability wave used to determine these likely locations?

Also  do these electrons interact with each other?

 

 

[studiot]

5 minutes ago, geordief said:

Suppose there are a number of electrons at various locations (at the same energetic level) in the atom,is the probability wave used to determine these likely locations?

Also  do these electrons interact with each other?

 

 

 

Pauli exclusion Principle

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Supplemental_Modules_(Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry)/Electronic_Structure_of_Atoms_and_Molecules/Electronic_Configurations/Pauli_Exclusion_Principle

 

and also Hund's Rules

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Supplemental_Modules_(Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry)/Electronic_Structure_of_Atoms_and_Molecules/Electronic_Configurations/Hund's_Rules

[geordief]

3 minutes ago, studiot said:

 

Pauli exclusion Principle

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Supplemental_Modules_(Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry)/Electronic_Structure_of_Atoms_and_Molecules/Electronic_Configurations/Pauli_Exclusion_Principle

 

and also Hund's Rules

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Supplemental_Modules_(Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry)/Electronic_Structure_of_Atoms_and_Molecules/Electronic_Configurations/Hund's_Rules

Thanks, that will take me  some time to learn.