How long would somebody live if their body became severely allergic to the H20 molecule?

[MeredithLesly]

2 hours ago, Strange said:

I have yet to see any evidence that (a) this person exists and (b) that this anecdote is true. 

I think you have invented this story. 

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JUST+ONE+CUP+OF+WATER+COULD+KILL+LITTLE+HEIDI%3B+Girl's+deadly+allergy...-a061152595

 

Look up Heidi Falconer, she is very real.

[DrP]

23 minutes ago, MeredithLesly said:

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JUST+ONE+CUP+OF+WATER+COULD+KILL+LITTLE+HEIDI%3B+Girl's+deadly+allergy...-a061152595

 

Look up Heidi Falconer, she is very real.

She has aquagenic urticarial. From reading around it wasn't clear at first if this was from water or stuff in the water that causes the hives to appear after water contact. It isn't the allergy to it being in your cells...  I don't know how anyone could survive such a thing.  

from wiki - 'Aquagenic Urticaria - causes unclear - triggered by water'

[MeredithLesly]

12 minutes ago, DrP said:

She has aquagenic urticarial. From reading around it wasn't clear at first if this was from water or stuff in the water that causes the hives to appear after water contact. It isn't the allergy to it being in your cells...  I don't know how anyone could survive such a thing.  

from wiki - 'Aquagenic Urticaria - causes unclear - triggered by water'

If you're having IgE response to the H2O molecule, then her own saliva should be causing anaphylaxis every time she swallows it considering she said a sip of water sent her into shock. 

[Strange]

34 minutes ago, MeredithLesly said:

If you're having IgE response to the H2O molecule, then her own saliva should be causing anaphylaxis every time she swallows it considering she said a sip of water sent her into shock. 

"[Aquagenic urticaria] is sometimes described as an allergy, although it is not a true histamine-releasing allergic reaction like other forms of urticaria." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquagenic_urticaria)

IT IS NOT AN ALLERGY.

[Dagl1]

1 hour ago, MeredithLesly said:

If you're having IgE response to the H2O molecule, then her own saliva should be causing anaphylaxis every time she swallows it considering she said a sip of water sent her into shock. 

How can she drink that orange juice then...?

[MeredithLesly]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

"[Aquagenic urticaria] is sometimes described as an allergy, although it is not a true histamine-releasing allergic reaction like other forms of urticaria." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquagenic_urticaria)

IT IS NOT AN ALLERGY.

If not an allergy, why did Heidi go into shock from drinking a sip of water, and why was it reversed with adrenaline?

 

That type of shock is anaphylactic shock and it is by medical definition a ''severe and life threatening allergic reaction''.

 

Can you  explain her internal symptoms? (Which are a lot worse than external contact with water)

38 minutes ago, Dagl1 said:

How can she drink that orange juice then...?

According to some posts I read, it's either because there's fewer H2O molecules in orange juice or the other stuff mixed in masks the H2O molecules from the IgE receptors

[Dagl1]

1 minute ago, MeredithLesly said:

If not an allergy, why did Heidi go into shock from drinking a sip of water, and why was it reversed with adrenaline?

 

That type of shock is anaphylactic shock and it is by medical definition a ''severe and life threatening allergic reaction''.

 

Can you  explain her internal symptoms? (Which are a lot worse than external contact with water)

According to some posts I read, it's either because there's fewer H2O molecules in orange juice or the other stuff mixed in masks the H2O molecules from the IgE receptors

So.... don't you think the WAY MORE LOGICAL conclusion is that she is not allergic to H20? 

[MeredithLesly]

32 minutes ago, Dagl1 said:

So.... don't you think the WAY MORE LOGICAL conclusion is that she is not allergic to H20? 

https://socialnewsdaily.com/75296/woman-possesses-fatal-water-allergy/

 

It says she is allergic to the H2O molecule in this article.

[Dagl1]

4 minutes ago, MeredithLesly said:

https://socialnewsdaily.com/75296/woman-possesses-fatal-water-allergy/

 

It says she is allergic to the H2O molecule in this article.

But..... that article can be wrong, it can lie, it can be a mistake, it can be a misunderstanding between the explanation the doctor gave the journalist. Why would you believe some random article over... logical thinking?

[MeredithLesly]

5 minutes ago, Dagl1 said:

But..... that article can be wrong, it can lie, it can be a mistake, it can be a misunderstanding between the explanation the doctor gave the journalist. Why would you believe some random article over... logical thinking?

Because there's people who can be allergic to semen, for example, and even gold so how is the H2O molecule different? There's dozens of cases where they themselves explain they cannot drink water.

[DrP]

18 hours ago, Strange said:

The Daily Mail is not a "news source". It is a far-right rag that mainly publishes fiction. I would not be surprised if they published something as idiotic as a "water allergy" story.

6 minutes ago, Dagl1 said:

But..... that article can be wrong, it can lie, it can be a mistake, it can be a misunderstanding between the explanation the doctor gave the journalist. Why would you believe some random article over... logical thinking?

3 hours ago, MeredithLesly said:

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JUST+ONE+CUP+OF+WATER+COULD+KILL+LITTLE+HEIDI%3B+Girl's+deadly+allergy...-a061152595

And this one is from the Mirror group   -  more from Rupert Murdock's propaganda machine.  Maybe it's another - 'science can't explain it - the experts don't know what they are talking about' anti science hypernormalisation of bullshit. I don't know.  But the whole - 'allergy to water' thing seems like media hype over whatever her condition actually is.

 

Just now, MeredithLesly said:

Because there's people who can be allergic to semen, for example, and even gold so how is the H2O molecule different?

From semen? From Gold? Are you serious?  You are 70% water and will die very quickly without it  - as would this girl.

 

[Dagl1]

1 minute ago, MeredithLesly said:

Because there's people who can be allergic to semen, for example, and even gold so how is the H2O molecule different? There's dozens of cases where they themselves explain they cannot drink water.

But those people (with H20 allergy) would die, immediately. There entire body is full of it, they can't drink anything; no, the concentration of juice wouldn't suddenly change that reaction, no some things wouldn't "mask" the water. Their entire body is filled with water, rain would kill them, humid air would kill them. I think it is good to be open minded, it is also very good to be super skeptical, and if something isn't very logical its a good idea to doubt it, especially if the source is... a meh-ish source.

[DrP]

Just now, Dagl1 said:

especially if the source is... a meh-ish source.

Rupert Murdock 'news' paper articles.

[MeredithLesly]

1 minute ago, DrP said:

And this one is from the Mirror group   -  more from Rupert Murdock's propaganda machine.  Maybe it's another - 'science can't explain it - the experts don't know what they are talking about' anti science hypernormalisation of bullshit. I don't know.  But the whole - 'allergy to water' thing seems like media hype over whatever her condition actually is.

 

From semen? From Gold? Are you serious?  You are 70% water and will die very quickly without it  - as would this girl.

 

She is OK drinking H2O as long as it's mixed with something and in lower concentration - orange juice and milk bring her no harm when she drinks them. At the time of the article when she was 8, it said she drinks 4 glass of milk or OJ a day.

[Dagl1]

22 minutes ago, MeredithLesly said:

She is OK drinking H2O as long as it's mixed with something and in lower concentration - orange juice and milk bring her no harm when she drinks them. At the time of the article when she was 8, it said she drinks 4 glass of milk or OJ a day.

That is not how allergies work..... you're body reacts to molecules, so if there are 100 molecules in 200 other molecules, or there are 100 in 200000 then your body will still react to those 100. I don't understand the point of your question; most people (some with a lot more knowledge about biology, to whom you have directed your questions) have mentioned that this is most likely not true, yet you keep saying it is and asking for some answer which satisfies your assumption (that it is true). When we don't give that, you ask questions like "why can't it be that way" while ignoring the fact that IT CAN'T BE THAT WAY BECAUSE SHE WOULD DIE, IMMEDIATELY. 

 

Edit:

I should add that dilution can of course lessen a response, as the likely hood that the body interacts with a molecule decreases. However in the ranges of milk and orange juice this is of course not the case.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Dagl1

[DrP]

27 minutes ago, MeredithLesly said:

She is OK drinking H2O as long as it's mixed with something and in lower concentration - orange juice and milk bring her no harm when she drinks them

Then she isn't 'allergic' to water then is she? As we have pointed out  - 'news' papers aren't sources of scientific reference. She has aquagenic urticarial  -  which isn't an allergy as said before.

 

[MeredithLesly]

7 minutes ago, DrP said:

Then she isn't 'allergic' to water then is she? As we have pointed out  - 'news' papers aren't sources of scientific reference. She has aquagenic urticarial  -  which isn't an allergy as said before.

 

If it isn't an allergy why did she go into shock from drinking a mouthful of water and this was reversed with adrenaline?

 

She was also IV'd with saline and had the same reaction in hospital. Says so in the freelibrary article here https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JUST+ONE+CUP+OF+WATER+COULD+KILL+LITTLE+HEIDI%3B+Girl's+deadly+allergy...-a061152595

[Strange]

16 minutes ago, MeredithLesly said:

She was also IV'd with saline and had the same reaction in hospital. Says so in the freelibrary article

Why should we trust some random story, on a random website written by an unknown person (possibly you)?

[DrP]

13 minutes ago, MeredithLesly said:

Says so in the freelibrary article

.... from an article on a site from Rupert Murdock's Mirror group.   Are you saying we take every word from Fox News and Sky and The Mail and The Sun and The Mirror as scientific fact? Whatever - we are going in circles now. Bye.   The news papers get stuff incorrect all the time and ham them up to make them more shocking and readable.

What is your point here anyway?  She has a bad reaction to water due to her aquagenic urticarial   -  what's your point?  

 

[MeredithLesly]

6 minutes ago, DrP said:

.... from an article on a site from Rupert Murdock's Mirror group.   Are you saying we take every word from Fox News and Sky and The Mail and The Sun and The Mirror as scientific fact? Whatever - we are going in circles now. Bye.   The news papers get stuff incorrect all the time and ham them up to make them more shocking and readable.

What is your point here anyway?  She has a bad reaction to water due to her aquagenic urticarial   -  what's your point?  

 

That scientists are wrong about immunology since scientists say a small molecule like water cannot trigger IgE immune mast cell receptors but this girl and several others refute that.

 

The Heidi girl in question saw an immunologist at Birmingham Children's Hospital and the immunologist confirmed she was allergic to the H2O molecule, not to additives in water.

 

It is mentioned toward the end of the freelibrary article. The immunologist is named and I looked him up and can confirm he's a real immunologist in the UK.

Edited March 19, 2019 by MeredithLesly

[DrP]

7 minutes ago, MeredithLesly said:

It is mentioned toward the end of the freelibrary article. The immunologist is named and I looked him up and can confirm he's a real immunologist in the UK.

 

So what?  What is your point?  It is such a rare occurrence and clearly not understood yet -  what of it?

Even doctors can be wrong about the conclusions they come to  -  if she is allergic then why isn't she reacting to the water in her body that is there all the time? Also - you seem to be ignoring that the only stuff you have showed us is from the Murdock empire.  What say you to that?  If you are so sucked into believing everything that comes out of the lowest tabloids then carry  on misunderstanding the world and getting excited about non issues.  I expect it isn't a non issue for the poor girl  -  but for pretty much the rest of the world it isn't an issue... it's a very rare condition.

None of us here are experts on the topic. Some of us are good at finding things out and understanding things....   the real explanations never come from Fox news, CNN, The Sun or Mirror newspapers.  Believe what you like. It is very sad for the poor girl, but not much we can do about it.  

 

 

[Strange]

14 minutes ago, MeredithLesly said:

It is mentioned toward the end of the freelibrary article.

Perhaps you can find an authoritative, peer-reviewed source to back up your claims? Instead of depending on the tabloid press who are not renowned for their accuracy or honesty. 

[CharonY]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

Perhaps you can find an authoritative, peer-reviewed source to back up your claims? Instead of depending on the tabloid press who are not renowned for their accuracy or honesty. 

Especially as the part regarding the shock was not described at all. The rest (blisters due to tears and saliva) are typical for aquagenic urticaria. The inability to identify supporting sources with actual details makes further discussion rather futile.

[MeredithLesly]

3 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Especially as the part regarding the shock was not described at all. The rest (blisters due to tears and saliva) are typical for aquagenic urticaria. The inability to identify supporting sources with actual details makes further discussion rather futile.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3720354

[CharonY]

3 minutes ago, MeredithLesly said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3720354

I hope you realize that this does not further your point? It was already mentioned that there are certain aquagenic reactions of the epidermis (including urticaria, pruritus and acrokertoderma as the most common forms, though all being rare). It is also unknown what the mechanisms but the response is cutaneous and not an allergy to water molecules itself. Rather obviously as if water was eliciting a response, adding things to it like in juice or milk would not suppress it as others have mentioned. I have found an open access article that you may want to read: Wang et al. 2017 (JDDG  Volume15, Issue 6 Pages 602-608).