Conservation of Energy

[JohnB]

Reading a "Perpetual Motion" thread made me think.

 

Can the "Conservation of Energy" Law be misapplied?

 

PM will not work in a closed system because the energy has to come from somewhere, it can't spontaneously generate. Anybody with a basic knowledge must be aware of this.

 

But what about this scenario? If there are other Universes, Dimensions, call them what you will and if we could in some way interact with them, what if a device drew power from one of them?

 

From the POV of the total collection of all Universes, no law is broken as the energy merely moved from one area to another. However, from the POV of the "recieving" Universe energy would appear to be coming out of thin air and thereby impossible.

 

I'm in no way suggesting that any of the PM devices yet tried work on this principle (or work at all for that matter. ) but if such a device were made it would appear impossible due to a misapplication of principles.

 

Consequently, if there are other Universes and we can interact in some way with them, it may be unwise to dismiss PM out of hand without finding out the principles involved first.

 

Thoughts?

[Psion]

I think about things like this often, in my opinion when it comes to things like this, I must say that the universe expands on forever.

 

If there is a limit to energy, we are all screwed.

However, if there isn't a limit and the universe doesn't stop somewhere and you hit face first into a brickwall, then you are in luck.

 

I figure that making free energy would be possible but pointless. I suspect that finding a way to move energy from one place to another from a distant area will be discovered once people figure out why electrons like to move around so much. They like to go to the path of least resistance and a lot of other factors so I'm guessing if you can just get everything down to a quantum number level and transfer that electron to a new area of resistance.. ahh my laptop battery..

[ydoaPs]

if it DRAWS POWER from other universes, then is it a perpetual motion device?

[Kyrisch]

As long as it stays in motion perpetually

[ydoaPs]

wow, i have a thermal genorator. it's a perpetual motion device

[Kyrisch]

No, it stops after its fuel runs out.

[Psion]

...to a new area of resistance, i'm guessing you could be able to call upon energy.

 

You would have to call upon it by giving it a chance to move to the next area of resistnace or else trick it into doing so. So much would be called a draw as pogo stated, but if you could keep it in motion and have it power itself with the energy, then yes, you could achieve a perpetual motion device.

[Psion]

Now that I think of it, there is a missing part to all of this.

If you take electrons and guide them away, then what would take their place of the next place of destination they were suppose to be?

 

seems like this part reminds me of dark energy...

[JohnB]

if it DRAWS POWER from other universes, then is it a perpetual motion device?

No, but if you didn't know it drew power from the other place, it would appear to be perpetual motion, or an "over unity device". It isn't, as it is drawing power from elsewhere, but if we assume this Universe is a closed system, then it would look like it.

 

The Law of Conservation of Energy would only apply if this Universe (the visible one) is in fact a closed system. If there are other universes that we can interact with, then ours cannot be a closed system. If that is the case, then energy can pass from one to the other. Thus the total energy of this universe would increase or decrease depending on the interaction. Energy would appear to be being created and destroyed and would appear to contradict the rules.

 

It isn't of course, the rules just work in a larger framework. See what I'm getting at?

 

Once again, I'm not suggesting that any PM device, or any device for that matter works this way, but one day one might and be dismissed because it appears impossible.

 

[edit] Anyone ever read "Waldo" by Heinlein? That sort of idea.[/edit]

[srdickens]

I found this amazing anyway,,,I have a program that runs on my computer that puts out a 60 hz sign wave through the computers speakers,,i disconnected the computer speakers and took the two wires and connected them to a transformer about the size of my fist,,i then connected the other end of the transformer to my radio power cord,,the same cord that plugs into a 110 v plugin,,and the radio works,,on am and fm,,and can be turned up loud,,just as if i had been plugged it into a 110 v outlet..So I figure the comps speakers cant be putting out no more then maybe 5 or 6 or so volts and are pulsing at 60 hz because of the program running them and thats even less then a 9 volt battery,,and if you connect a 9 volt battery to the power cord it will not power the radio nor will connecting just the speakers to the coil playing any music power the radio ,,yet doing it the way I mentioned above pulsed at 60 hz it powers a 110v radio from its 110 v power cord..Anyway I thought it was amazing...

[mmalluck]

Transformers only work with alternating currents (AC).

Speakers only work off alternating currents.

 

A battery supplies direct current.

 

Therefore niether a transformer or speaker will not work off a battery.

 

Now if you pulse the battery through the transformer or speaker (disconnect and reconnect the battery led) you should get some output (the speaker will make pop sounds, the transformer will supply a short burst of current).

 

If you could connect and disconnect the battery very quickly (60 times a second) your radio would work just fine, but this takes years of practice. I takes a heck of a lot of videogame playing to get your fingers to move that fast.