A Tinge of Sadness to the recent Image of a Black Hole:

[beecee]

I don't want to infest the thread re the first BH image with this disgusting reactions to a young lady Instrumental in a great experiment and its success.......I nearly vomited after reading this material. One wonders why we have such arsholes in this world!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-15/black-hole-photo-katie-bouman-trolls/11006820

Colleagues of the computer scientist whose photo went viral after a team of researchers produced the world's first photograph of a supermassive black hole are coming to her defence after she was attacked by social media trolls.

more at link....

 

The photo of her after the success of the experiment, and the realization that she was a part of that success, is amply illustrated with her photo immediately afterwards. A nice note to end this disgusting reaction/s by arseholes.

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by beecee

[koti]

The trolls will always infest any information on the internet, it's always a good idea to get an accurate view and I have to admit I haven't done proper research so I'm not forming any opinions but I thing this might be relevant as much as meme's and social media stuff is concerned:

https://bhi.fas.harvard.edu/people/andrew-chael

 

BTW...where are the disgusting reactions by arseholes you mention, I cant seem to find them in your link?

Edited April 15, 2019 by koti

[beecee]

12 minutes ago, koti said:

BTW...where are the disgusting reactions by arseholes you mention, I cant seem to find them in your link?

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/13/18308652/katie-bouman-black-hole-science-internet

"Within a few hours, the gravitational well of darkness that is the internet began to tug on her. Her phone started getting so many messages that she had to shut it off, according to The New York Times. Someone repeatedly set up fake Twitter accounts in her name. The next day, the Times published an article called “How Katie Bouman Accidentally Became the Face of the Black Hole Project”. The Verge reached out to Bouman for comment, but a representative of MIT told The Verge that Bouman was not speaking to the press at the moment.

It’s wonderful to be recognized for your work. But it must also be uncomfortable to stand in a spotlight and be asked to take a final bow for your starring role when you were part of an ensemble cast.

In response to the attention, Bouman wrote in a Facebook post: “No one algorithm or person made this image, it required the amazing talent of a team of scientists from around the globe and years of hard work to develop the instrument, data processing, imaging methods, and analysis techniques that were necessary to pull off this seemingly impossible feat. It has been truly an honor, and I am so lucky to have had the opportunity to work with you all.”

It’s the internet; things got worse. In what can only be described as a sexist scavenger hunt, people began going over her work to see how much she’d really contributed to the project that skyrocketed her to unasked-for fame. The trolls focused in on one of her colleagues, Andrew Chael, who was listed on GitHub as the primary developer for one of the algorithms that revealed the black hole, and started circulating his picture instead. Chael was having none of it."

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Edited April 15, 2019 by beecee

[koti]

Apparently Andrew is defending Katie so I say Kudos to Andrew.

 

 

49 minutes ago, beecee said:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/13/18308652/katie-bouman-black-hole-science-internet

"Within a few hours, the gravitational well of darkness that is the internet began to tug on her. Her phone started getting so many messages that she had to shut it off, according to The New York Times. Someone repeatedly set up fake Twitter accounts in her name. The next day, the Times published an article called “How Katie Bouman Accidentally Became the Face of the Black Hole Project”. The Verge reached out to Bouman for comment, but a representative of MIT told The Verge that Bouman was not speaking to the press at the moment.

It’s wonderful to be recognized for your work. But it must also be uncomfortable to stand in a spotlight and be asked to take a final bow for your starring role when you were part of an ensemble cast.

In response to the attention, Bouman wrote in a Facebook post: “No one algorithm or person made this image, it required the amazing talent of a team of scientists from around the globe and years of hard work to develop the instrument, data processing, imaging methods, and analysis techniques that were necessary to pull off this seemingly impossible feat. It has been truly an honor, and I am so lucky to have had the opportunity to work with you all.”

It’s the internet; things got worse. In what can only be described as a sexist scavenger hunt, people began going over her work to see how much she’d really contributed to the project that skyrocketed her to unasked-for fame. The trolls focused in on one of her colleagues, Andrew Chael, who was listed on GitHub as the primary developer for one of the algorithms that revealed the black hole, and started circulating his picture instead. Chael was having none of it."

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Well maybe something like an excerpt from your link:

"It’s so easy to be excited about Katie Bouman. She’s the 29-year-old computer scientist whose utter glee at seeing a black hole for the first time was captured in a picture that warmed hearts around the world"

Strikes some primitive souls as a good target for making fun and having some not necessarily civil comments in places like redit.

I will only go as far as please provide the "disgusting reactions by arseholes" again so we can investigate.

Nah, I take it back, it's too petty to try to get into the details of who/how much had most input (god that is petty isn't it?) into the project.

It's pathetic that a wonderful advancement in science has to be entangled into a gender/pollitical discussion. In fact this makes me more sick than any dumb comments towards her photo. We should be ashamed as a species.
 

"It’s the internet; things got worse. In what can only be described as a sexist scavenger hunt, people began going over her work to see how much she’d really contributed to the project that skyrocketed her to unasked-for fame. The trolls focused in on one of her colleagues, Andrew Chael, who was listed on GitHub as the primary developer for one of the algorithms that revealed the black hole, and started circulating his picture instead. Chael was having none of it."
 

If in those circumstances finding out who did what in the BH project is the "disgusting reactions by arseholes" then boo hoo, I prasie the kids on redit for being "disgusting"
I actually think this is a great thing that the younger generation doesn't give into the ridiculous gender war that we adults are feeding them. 
Whoever wrote the above quote is a venomous twat with an agenda. Yes, I will get downvotes for this as usual in these situations but screw it.

PS. Still can’t see the „disgusting reactions by arseholes” where are they?

I will be the first to condemn if I see any. I think people (including kids on redit) are tired of media force feeding feminine images/agendas wherever possible because its fashionable/trendy right now and thats why were getting these reactions. And its a very good thing...I don’t know whats worse, the artificial gender agendas being pushed all over media or the right wing freaks with their heads filled with nothingness or the botox filled lips I see every morning when I leave my kid in kindergarden. 
 

Edited April 15, 2019 by koti

[MigL]

I had read this on Daily Mail and figured it was the usual drivel that they publish.
It saddens me that it is real.
 

[CharonY]

Jesus, the mere fact that folks decide to post memes discrediting the contribution of one of key personnel in a team just because of her gender is sad. However, it is much sadder that this is what my colleagues experience on a routine basis. It is silly to frame it in terms of a gender war. Rather, it has and still is the case that women have to fight harder for recognition. If you seriously wonder wonder where the disgusting reaction is, just ask yourself, why does the picture with Andrew exist and why did he had to step in to defend his colleague? Of course those same folks will try to make it about identifying contributions and of course it is an incredibly thinly veiled attempt to hide their true motives.

That being said, none of my female colleagues find that surprising (especially the older ones), as it has been with them every step in their career. Quite a few are hesitant to use social media in the same way as their male counterparts (especially when it comes to photos). While one can hope that the reactionary attitude will die out with the younger generation, quite a bit will be amplified by social media, where those backward arsehats still have their safe space. 

 

[beecee]

 

1 hour ago, koti said:

It's pathetic that a wonderful advancement in science has to be entangled into a gender/pollitical discussion. In fact this makes me more sick than any dumb comments towards her photo. We should be ashamed as a species.

That alone sums up my disgust and such comments entangled in gender/politic bias, as yes, disgusting! It's a great experiment, with a great result, that confirmed BH's and GR to even greater certainty, with a great many participants, who I would suggest also be just as disgusted and sad that such inferences of gender or anything else can raise their ugly head.

Edited April 16, 2019 by beecee

[zapatos]

I read that Andrew Chael chuckled as he pointed out that those trolls didn't realize the man they held up to take the spotlight off his friend Katie Bouman happens to be gay, another group often targeted by such trolls.

[beecee]

30 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I read that Andrew Chael chuckled as he pointed out that those trolls didn't realize the man they held up to take the spotlight off his friend Katie Bouman happens to be gay, another group often targeted by such trolls.

Classic!!!!

[koti]

6 hours ago, CharonY said:

Jesus, the mere fact that folks decide to post memes discrediting the contribution of one of key personnel in a team just because of her gender is sad. However, it is much sadder that this is what my colleagues experience on a routine basis. It is silly to frame it in terms of a gender war. Rather, it has and still is the case that women have to fight harder for recognition. If you seriously wonder wonder where the disgusting reaction is, just ask yourself, why does the picture with Andrew exist and why did he had to step in to defend his colleague? Of course those same folks will try to make it about identifying contributions and of course it is an incredibly thinly veiled attempt to hide their true motives.

That being said, none of my female colleagues find that surprising (especially the older ones), as it has been with them every step in their career. Quite a few are hesitant to use social media in the same way as their male counterparts (especially when it comes to photos). While one can hope that the reactionary attitude will die out with the younger generation, quite a bit will be amplified by social media, where those backward arsehats still have their safe space. 

 

I find it absolutely absurd that apprently a large part of the success of this experiment turned into a womens rights fight and apparently an LBGTQ rights fight, Andrew Chael is gay from what I read above - like it matters, geez!

[CharonY]

21 minutes ago, koti said:

I find it absolutely absurd that apprently a large part of the success of this experiment turned into a womens rights fight and apparently an LBGTQ rights fight, Andrew Chael is gay from what I read above - like it matters, geez!

It matters insofar as the certain group of people trying to diminish Katie's contribution by emphasizing Andrew's work (and mischaracterize it in the process) often also not very keen on lgbtq folks. Something that Andrew is well aware of which is why he threw it in.

[koti]

6 minutes ago, CharonY said:

It matters insofar as the certain group of people trying to diminish Katie's contribution by emphasizing Andrew's work (and mischaracterize it in the process) often also not very keen on lgbtq folks. Something that Andrew is well aware of which is why he threw it in.

Utterly absurd to a point it all becoming surreal.

[CharonY]

10 minutes ago, koti said:

Utterly absurd to a point it all becoming surreal.

Yeah, considering the whole thing started with a rather adorable photo of someone being excited over results. There are folks on the internet that just had to ruin that (and put in some effort, too).

Imagine a world where those folks were doing something constructive (or at least get a PhD themselves).

[koti]

35 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Yeah, considering the whole thing started with a rather adorable photo of someone being excited over results. There are folks on the internet that just had to ruin that (and put in some effort, too).

Imagine a world where those folks were doing something constructive (or at least get a PhD themselves).

I agree. 

[koti]

So...so far in the headlines we have a smart young woman scientist, a young smart gay male scientist (what a shame hes not a she) so were only missing a Caitlyn Jenner character and we’ll be all set. The Caitlyn Jenner character should preferably be African American, naturally.

Edited April 16, 2019 by koti

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, koti said:

So...so far in the headlines we have a smart young woman scientist, a young smart gay male scientist (what a shame hes not a she) so were only missing a Caitlyn Jenner character and we’ll be all set. The Caitlyn Jenner character should preferably be African American, naturally.

I do not get your point here. Or do you mean that those guys trying to put down the author picking up other men from the list only accidentally to pick trans and minority folks?

 

[koti]

55 minutes ago, CharonY said:

I do not get your point here. Or do you mean that those guys trying to put down the author picking up other men from the list only accidentally to pick trans and minority folks?

 

Why do you assume they’re guys? Maybe theyre jelous girls?

[Phi for All]

30 minutes ago, koti said:

Why do you assume they’re guys? Maybe theyre jelous girls?

Studies suggest the vast majority of internet trolls are men.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563217305010

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-02/internet-trolls-arent-who-i-thought-ginger-gorman-troll-hunting/10767690

[koti]

10 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Studies suggest the vast majority of internet trolls are men.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563217305010

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-02/internet-trolls-arent-who-i-thought-ginger-gorman-troll-hunting/10767690

„I asked Mark for an analogy to the trolling syndicate he belongs to. "Yakuza", he replied, referring to the Japanese organised crime syndicates”

Sounds like we’re in trouble Phi. Do you think we should prepare somehow for the mayhem „Mark” is ready to drop upon us? I bet them Yakuza trolls cut they’re fingers off for offences like the real Yakuza. That way they suffer unimaginably, after all you can’t troll as much online with less than 10 fingers. Then again maybe repeat offenders use their toes to keep the trolling going to keep the syndicate happy. 

[CharonY]

51 minutes ago, koti said:

Why do you assume they’re guys? Maybe theyre jelous girls?

In addition to what phi said, a number of these posts appeared on various websites affiliated with what they ingeniously call men's rights (which, rather than addressing gendered issues for men, instead promotes a misogynist worldview). 

 

Edit: social media was a mistake. 

[StringJunky]

8 hours ago, CharonY said:

It matters insofar as the certain group of people trying to diminish Katie's contribution by emphasizing Andrew's work (and mischaracterize it in the process) often also not very keen on lgbtq folks. Something that Andrew is well aware of which is why he threw it in.

Either way, I'm annoyed it was turned into a ''gender opportunity' by all  sides. The BBC is a PITA for it. I think the anti-feminist element kicked off when the feminist element held it up as a pro-women achievement. We will see a lot more of this politicisation. Gender should have nothing to do with this.

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, koti said:

„I asked Mark for an analogy to the trolling syndicate he belongs to. "Yakuza", he replied, referring to the Japanese organised crime syndicates”

Sounds like we’re in trouble Phi. Do you think we should prepare somehow for the mayhem „Mark” is ready to drop upon us? I bet them Yakuza trolls cut they’re fingers off for offences like the real Yakuza. That way they suffer unimaginably, after all you can’t troll as much online with less than 10 fingers. Then again maybe repeat offenders use their toes to keep the trolling going to keep the syndicate happy. 

I'm not sure why you seem to be making light of this behavior. It's clear you think women are somehow more to blame for internet trolling. I was pointing out how observation and available data suggests you're wrong. Are your feelings towards your ex-wife becoming more general towards all women? The sarcasm you use suggests your stance on this is an emotional one. Sorry if I'm wrong about this.

58 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Either way, I'm annoyed it was turned into a ''gender opportunity' by all  sides. The BBC is a PITA for it. I think the anti-feminist element kicked off when the feminist element held it up as a pro-women achievement. We will see a lot more of this politicisation. Gender should have nothing to do with this.

And if we stop pointing out instances where gender shouldn't matter, it will continue to matter too much to some people. I still don't understand why some of you aren't willing to acknowledge that men are far more likely to be the bad guys when it comes to this sort of thing, just because you're nice guys who wouldn't stoop to that level. It's almost as if you take criticisms of men's behavior in general personally, and for no reason. If a study shows that the vast majority of internet trolls are men, it's not claiming you're a troll just because you're a man. Stop worrying about being painted by the same large brush.

As men with desirable behavior, we really need to stop defending undesirable behavior just because it comes from a fellow male. This is a good template to follow for lots of folks ("As Republicans with desirable behavior, we really need to stop defending undesirable behavior just because it comes from a fellow Republican").

[koti]

45 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I'm not sure why you seem to be making light of this behavior.

It's absurd and surreally funny to me as opposed to say, Russian troll and bot systems which I don't treat litely.

Quote

It's clear you think women are somehow more to blame for internet trolling.

You gotta be kidding. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not trolling me with a strawman...ofcourse I don't think that.

Quote

I was pointing out how observation and available data suggests you're wrong.

And I pointed out an excerpt from the article you linked and made sacrastic passes at it. Thats all "Yakuza Mike" deserves...unless he's a payed troll on Putin's payroll that is but then he wouldn't be in that ridiculous interview now would he.
 

Quote

Are your feelings towards your ex-wife becoming more general towards all women? The sarcasm you use suggests your stance on this is an emotional one. Sorry if I'm wrong about this.

You are somewhat right, I'm sure I am determined to a degree with my prior experiences. Not necessarily to the direction you assume but I'm sure we all are determined by our life experiences. I'll give you a hint... in the first few months when I was alienated from my twins 10 years ago I ended up in some local Father organization that claimed to help out. I lasted 20 minutes at their get along - a bunch of trully mysoginistic, agressive guys with whom I didn't want anything to do with even (or especially) when I was in by far the most pain I ever experienced in my life. Even when I was in the deepest holes years ago and my hate towards my ex wife ruled my world, I never tended to project that at other women, I always seemed to understand that all the women out there are not my ex wife - something that many people would benefit from understanding.
As for my feeling towards my ex-wife you need to be more subtle man, Emily might read this and you'll get me in trouble  

[peterwlocke]

I don't see why they are saying these things it is like saying insert artist did not make a painting because they did not make the tools. now, Andrew, was instrumental forgive the pun but she did the final part/put it together and got it.

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Either way, I'm annoyed it was turned into a ''gender opportunity' by all  sides. The BBC is a PITA for it. I think the anti-feminist element kicked off when the feminist element held it up as a pro-women achievement. We will see a lot more of this politicisation. Gender should have nothing to do with this.

It seems that there is a tendency to describe such behaviour merely as a reaction to something, rather than calling the behaviour itself. If you followed the story you can see that it kicked off by a photo posted by MIT showing her being excited about (presumably) one of the first renderings. Within a day folks set up fake twitter accounts and targeted her specifically to minimize her contributions. One could discuss the predilection of the public to associate scientific achievements with individuals rather than groups, but it is not by accident that a woman's contribution is being minimized here.

Specifically these trolls seem to target specifically young women. Men and older women are somewhat safer, though the latter tend to get commented on because their looks (whereas the stereotypical disheveled male scientists gets a pass. Ahem.). So clearly, this is not a gender war situation (as in, there are opposing parties). It is about a certain group of internet folks harassing the sh*t out of achievers who happen to be young women.