DrP Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 So he finally revealed his tax records. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/07/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?fbclid=IwAR2CiXhc1rA2Lpo5lwLLcBB1_o--jWoXH5MgbKx3sT9SnDzy14oy8O5ZWIs Do those that voted for him still have his confidence seeing as his campaign was all about what a great business man he was? Maybe his father left him a note like the one from 'Brewster's Millions'.
swansont Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 12:40 PM, DrP said: So he finally revealed his tax records. Expand No, he did not. They were obtained, not released. 1
DrP Posted May 9, 2019 Author Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 12:56 PM, swansont said: No, he did not. They were obtained, not released. Expand OK - Thanks - that actually makes a lot more sense than him choosing to show the world his incompetence.
dimreepr Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 1:00 PM, DrP said: OK - Thanks - that actually makes a lot more sense than him choosing to show the world his incompetence. Expand Like the world didn't know
DrP Posted May 9, 2019 Author Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 1:05 PM, dimreepr said: Like the world didn't know Expand Enough obviously didn't as they voted him into power.
dimreepr Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 But looked at from a different perspective, he's extremely competent; how much does he have to loose before people stop investing.
Sensei Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 (edited) On 5/9/2019 at 12:40 PM, DrP said: Maybe his father left him a note like the one from 'Brewster's Millions'. Expand LOL. I love this movie! Quote Trump tax records. - A Billion in losses. Expand ...you're under impression that what has been shown on these papers is objective truth.. but it might not be the case.. (compare official statements of some worldwide politicians versus what is found later by independent investigation and/or independent media, what I mean) Edited May 9, 2019 by Sensei
Phi for All Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 12:40 PM, DrP said: So he finally revealed his tax records. Expand These are just the ones that show he's incompetent as a businessman, compared to others in his wealth bracket. The records that could show his involvement with foreign actors (selling a $40M home to a Russian oligarch for $100M) and his charitable contributions (or lack thereof) are the ones he's always refused to release.
CharonY Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 1:36 PM, Phi for All said: These are just the ones that show he's incompetent as a businessman, compared to others in his wealth bracket. The records that could show his involvement with foreign actors (selling a $40M home to a Russian oligarch for $100M) and his charitable contributions (or lack thereof) are the ones he's always refused to release. Expand He does not release anything that he can get away with not releasing. Actually seeing his finances laid bare would reveal how much of his business is based on fraud and deception (remember how Trump faked to be someone else to praise himself to Forbes?). The major question is whether only his father bailed him out or also someone else.
swansont Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 1:36 PM, Phi for All said: These are just the ones that show he's incompetent as a businessman, compared to others in his wealth bracket. The records that could show his involvement with foreign actors (selling a $40M home to a Russian oligarch for $100M) and his charitable contributions (or lack thereof) are the ones he's always refused to release. Expand The only set he's released (AFAIK; I think he released or leaked them) are for the year before Melania got citizenship, when they got married. They had to be in good shape for the immigration review. https://freebeacon.com/politics/maddow-claims-trumps-2005-tax-returns-had-to-be-sterling-so-that-melania-could-become-a-citizen/
dimreepr Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 2:20 PM, CharonY said: The major question is whether only his father bailed him out or also someone else. Expand The major question is, when are "we" going to stop?
Phi for All Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 2:32 PM, swansont said: The only set he's released (AFAIK; I think he released or leaked them) are for the year before Melania got citizenship, when they got married. They had to be in good shape for the immigration review. https://freebeacon.com/politics/maddow-claims-trumps-2005-tax-returns-had-to-be-sterling-so-that-melania-could-become-a-citizen/ Expand Since he seems fairly bulletproof when it comes to his lies being uncovered, I don't think he's worried about his lack of charitable contributions coming out. His base still thinks he's a good businessman because of his assets (they see a forest instead of a bunch of diseased trees), so there's little there to harm him. I can't believe he's willing to risk so much speculation just to avoid a little bad press, so there must be something in his returns that he greatly fears being made public. What else could it be besides shady dealings with Russia? Collusion seemed to be the issue he always wanted to downplay. I think he realizes corruption can be dealt with as long as it's within your own country. The POTUS owing favors to an adversarial foreign government may be the line even he can't cross. He has an unprecedented level of ongoing, unfettered corrupt behavior because he keeps hinting his base will revolt if he's held accountable, he has a grip on the for-profit media, and because the GOP benefits from some of his rabid racism. Remember, when he heard a special counsel had been appointed to investigate him, his reaction was "I'm fucked!" Even HE expected it to end his presidency.
dimreepr Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 2:57 PM, Phi for All said: I think he realizes corruption Expand Has its price...
DrP Posted May 9, 2019 Author Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 2:57 PM, Phi for All said: His base still thinks he's a good businessman because of his assets Expand Yea - even FOX news complimented him on his 'genius' accounting - choosing to make a loss year after year so as to avoid having to pay any tax. I am not sure I fully follow the genius of it myself... FOX said it so it must be true - I'll just take their word for it as I am no expert on tax dodging or filing losses of hundreds of millions.
Phi for All Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 3:04 PM, DrP said: Yea - even FOX news complimented him on his 'genius' accounting - choosing to make a loss year after year so as to avoid having to pay any tax. I am not sure I fully follow the genius of it myself... FOX said it so it must be true - I'll just take their word for it as I am no expert on tax dodging or filing losses of hundreds of millions. Expand Extremist capitalism encourages avoiding taxes by any means. They like it when corruption is considered part and parcel of the process. On 5/9/2019 at 3:03 PM, dimreepr said: Has its price... Expand I disagree, both with your conclusion and your style of chopping up replies. 1
dimreepr Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 3:08 PM, Phi for All said: I disagree, both with your conclusion and your style of chopping up replies. Expand What will it cost me?
rangerx Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 3:04 PM, DrP said: Yea - even FOX news complimented him on his 'genius' accounting - choosing to make a loss year after year so as to avoid having to pay any tax. I am not sure I fully follow the genius of it myself... FOX said it so it must be true - I'll just take their word for it as I am no expert on tax dodging or filing losses of hundreds of millions. Expand Losing $8,999/minute is a small price to pay to own the libs. Not to worry though, they'll recoup it from evil socialist entitlements like our grandmother's medicine and child's school and call it a win for capitalism and democracy. 1
swansont Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 2:57 PM, Phi for All said: Since he seems fairly bulletproof when it comes to his lies being uncovered, I don't think he's worried about his lack of charitable contributions coming out. His base still thinks he's a good businessman because of his assets (they see a forest instead of a bunch of diseased trees), so there's little there to harm him. I can't believe he's willing to risk so much speculation just to avoid a little bad press, so there must be something in his returns that he greatly fears being made public. What else could it be besides shady dealings with Russia? Collusion seemed to be the issue he always wanted to downplay. I think he realizes corruption can be dealt with as long as it's within your own country. The POTUS owing favors to an adversarial foreign government may be the line even he can't cross. He has an unprecedented level of ongoing, unfettered corrupt behavior because he keeps hinting his base will revolt if he's held accountable, he has a grip on the for-profit media, and because the GOP benefits from some of his rabid racism. Remember, when he heard a special counsel had been appointed to investigate him, his reaction was "I'm fucked!" Even HE expected it to end his presidency. Expand I think that certain real estate dealings, involving the Russians, are things he wants to keep out of sight. They would need to be explained in some way other than "I was laundering money" 1
iNow Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 3:56 PM, swansont said: I think that certain real estate dealings, involving the Russians, are things he wants to keep out of sight. They would need to be explained in some way other than "I was laundering money" Expand And it appears his strategy for dealing with this is distraction. His direction to ignore congressional subpoenas takes focus away from this and puts it instead on constitutional crises, plus military movements into Iran and Venezuela. It's as if he's distracting us from a murder he committed by setting the house on fire. All we can see is the burning house... Swarm of bees strategy... We keep swatting at each individual bee while they walk out the house behind us carrying our valuables and jewelry.
swansont Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 3:27 PM, rangerx said: Losing $8,999/minute is a small price to pay to own the libs. Not to worry though, they'll recoup it from evil socialist entitlements like our grandmother's medicine and child's school and call it a win for capitalism and democracy. Expand There is an element of truth in some of the responses to the story. If you are depreciating an asset, it's a paper loss, not a cash loss. But the fact that he declared bankruptcy —six instances, four of which occurred in the window of this story — tells us that these were not all paper losses. That was real money he owed people and could not pay.
CharonY Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 4:54 PM, swansont said: There is an element of truth in some of the responses to the story. If you are depreciating an asset, it's a paper loss, not a cash loss. But the fact that he declared bankruptcy —six instances, four of which occurred in the window of this story — tells us that these were not all paper losses. That was real money he owed people and could not pay. Expand In addition the report indicated that assets were turned over to lenders prior to declaring bankruptcy, indicating that he was making substantial losses leading up to the various bankruptcies.
J.C.MacSwell Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 4:54 PM, swansont said: There is an element of truth in some of the responses to the story. If you are depreciating an asset, it's a paper loss, not a cash loss. But the fact that he declared bankruptcy —six instances, four of which occurred in the window of this story — tells us that these were not all paper losses. That was real money he owed people and could not pay. Expand ...or felt paying could be legally avoided. Did he actually declare personal bankruptcy at any point? ...or simply declare a limited liability company, that he owned, bankrupt?
rangerx Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 8:23 PM, J.C.MacSwell said: ...or felt paying could be legally avoided. Did he actually declare personal bankruptcy at any point? ...or simply declare a limited liability company, that he owned, bankrupt? Expand Just his LLCs, I gather. However, he's quite notorious for reneging on contracts or getting them over a barrel and reducing the payment previously agreed to. His word isn't worth shit. He's underhanded and greedy.
CharonY Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 8:23 PM, J.C.MacSwell said: ...or felt paying could be legally avoided. Did he actually declare personal bankruptcy at any point? ...or simply declare a limited liability company, that he owned, bankrupt? Expand He has not declared personal bankruptcy. However, according to the NYT article his companies were set up as partnerships. As mentioned, he had to turn over personal assets, including his yacht, stocks etc. to pay off lenders. (He did manage to avoid personal bankruptcy seemingly by various windfalls that are somewhat unexplainable, but that may be a separate question). But even before the NYT report came out, it was known that Trump had to sell off personal assets as part of the agreement with lenders which shows that he actually had to pay. I.e. the bankruptcy declarations were not a way to avoid personal liability (again, as the businesses were not set up as LLCs to begin with).
swansont Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 8:23 PM, J.C.MacSwell said: ...or felt paying could be legally avoided. Did he actually declare personal bankruptcy at any point? ...or simply declare a limited liability company, that he owned, bankrupt? Expand LLCs, AFAIK. Relevant to discussing his business acumen
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