Pride vs Humility

[Intoscience]

18 hours ago, dimreepr said:

So, is a bully born or taught?

My point is some things are learnt, others are traits (mental) that are inherent within personalities (within the make up / process of our brains) that no amount of learning can change. At this point it may be possible and perhaps the only option to use physical intervention to alter/improve things  via; drugs, operations etc... .

What is normal behaviour in your own mind might well be abnormal behaviour to others. So if the consensus is that someone is deemed a bully, then the person maybe viewed as acting out abnormal/unacceptable behaviour. But for the person doing the bullying in their mind it might be normal and/or acceptable. Or they may not even be aware or recognise, or have the capacity to understand that they are bullying. 

So I guess, based on my reasoning, my response to your question is - It depends on the individual 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Intoscience
spelling

[dimreepr]

3 hours ago, Intoscience said:

My point is some things are learnt, others are traits (mental) that are inherent within personalities (within the make up / process of our brains) that no amount of learning can change. At this point it may be possible and perhaps the only option to use physical intervention to alter/improve things  via; drugs, operations etc... .

What is normal behaviour in your own mind might well be abnormal behaviour to others. So if the consensus is that someone is deemed a bully, then the person maybe viewed as acting out abnormal/unacceptable behaviour. But for the person doing the bullying in their mind it might be normal and/or acceptable. Or they may not even be aware or recognise, or have the capacity to understand that they are bullying. 

So I guess, based on my reasoning, my response to your question is - It depends on the individual 

And we're back to bias; a bully ("normal person") has been taught that tough love is a kindness, at one end of the spectrum, while at the other, a bully ("sociopath") has been taught that tough is a way too win.

A sociopath can also be taught that kindness is a way to win.

There is no manual for how to be a good person, if one ignores a bible or two; but if we start with the premise that, we are all capable of good and bad, and it's the bad that deserves our pity; even when our bias demands retribution. 

[Intoscience]

49 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

And we're back to bias; a bully ("normal person") has been taught that tough love is a kindness, at one end of the spectrum, while at the other, a bully ("sociopath") has been taught that tough is a way too win.

A sociopath can also be taught that kindness is a way to win.

There is no manual for how to be a good person, if one ignores a bible or two; but if we start with the premise that, we are all capable of good and bad, and it's the bad that deserves our pity; even when our bias demands retribution. 

Well yeah, but there is always going to be a natural bias if you set a small set of standards across a wide and diverse range. 

Then you have to define "tough love"  & "tough in order to win" then context for each or either...

A parent yanking a child back and causing pain to save that child from running in front of a vehicle and suffering worse consequences. A rugby player, or similar, american football player, tackling another player in order to scores points towards winning. 

Both examples are considered acceptable in the particular circumstances but by your definition would fall under the "bullying" category  

[dimreepr]

58 minutes ago, Intoscience said:

Well yeah, but there is always going to be a natural bias if you set a small set of standards across a wide and diverse range. 

Then you have to define "tough love"  & "tough in order to win" then context for each or either...

A parent yanking a child back and causing pain to save that child from running in front of a vehicle and suffering worse consequences. A rugby player, or similar, american football player, tackling another player in order to scores points towards winning. 

Both examples are considered acceptable in the particular circumstances but by your definition would fall under the "bullying" category  

What makes you think a teacher has no bias? 

[Intoscience]

17 hours ago, dimreepr said:

What makes you think a teacher has no bias? 

What makes you think I think they don't? How deep do we need to delve into bias? There are positive and negative bias's depending on the contexts/circumstances. 

I'm bias towards my child's welfare over my own. This could be viewed as a positive bias and negative. One could argue that my child's welfare may depend on my own. Ideally both welfares should be considered equally, so no bias. But in reality this is never the case. Depending on the circumstances one often has to make a choice, which then becomes a natural bias towards the choice made.   

Edited February 2, 2023 by Intoscience
spelling

[dimreepr]

3 hours ago, Intoscience said:

What makes you think I think they don't? How deep do we need to delve into bias? There are positive and negative bias's depending on the contexts/circumstances. 

I'm bias towards my child's welfare over my own. This could be viewed as a positive bias and negative. One could argue that my child's welfare may depend on my own. Ideally both welfares should be considered equally, so no bias. But in reality this is never the case. Depending on the circumstances one often has to make a choice, which then becomes a natural bias towards the choice made.   

There are three types of bias:

1, The bias we want to showcase to society, the bias we're proud of.

2, The bias we want to hide from society, the bias we're ashamed of.

3, The bias we want to ignore, the bias we hide from ourselves.

3 hours ago, Intoscience said:

I'm bias towards my child's welfare over my own.

How can you be sure?

If you've never faced "the grim reaper" with both lives in the balance and he's asking you to choose.

I'm not saying you wouldn't choose your only child; but what if you've got a daughter too?

3 hours ago, Intoscience said:

How deep do we need to delve into bias?

As deep as our honesty will allow.

Edited February 2, 2023 by dimreepr

[Intoscience]

19 hours ago, dimreepr said:

There are three types of bias:

1, The bias we want to showcase to society, the bias we're proud of.

2, The bias we want to hide from society, the bias we're ashamed of.

3, The bias we want to ignore, the bias we hide from ourselves

+1

19 hours ago, dimreepr said:

How can you be sure?

If you've never faced "the grim reaper" with both lives in the balance and he's asking you to choose.

I'm not saying you wouldn't choose your only child; but what if you've got a daughter too?

I can't, when faced with a desperate unsolvable situation having to choose between either child is a prospect I would fear the most. 

19 hours ago, dimreepr said:

As deep as our honesty will allow

The only honesty that has any true value is being honest with yourself. 

[dimreepr]

3 hours ago, Intoscience said:

+1

I can't, when faced with a desperate unsolvable situation having to choose between either child is a prospect I would fear the most. 

The only honesty that has any true value is being honest with yourself. 

Where's me lil green one?

 

[Intoscience]

On 2/3/2023 at 11:25 AM, dimreepr said:

Where's me lil green one?

There you go, feel better now? 😉 

[dimreepr]

29 minutes ago, Intoscience said:

There you go, feel better now? 😉 

Who doesn't feel better when validated? 🤔

I'm so proud of the number of "lil green one's" I got, and humbly suggest, it should be more... 

[Intoscience]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Who doesn't feel better when validated? 🤔

I'm so proud of the number of "lil green one's" I got, and humbly suggest, it should be more... 

Yes, nice feeling being validated. I guess it makes you feel accepted, part of something... contributing in some way positively. 

Keep posting and i'm sure it will go up, careful not to post too much which generated negative feedback though else your number may go down. Remember, its quality not quantity that counts.

Just to be clear I only give "lil green ones" for posts I feel I strongly agree with or inform me of something I wasn't aware of that I find useful/interesting. I try very hard to avoid giving lil red ones, because though I may not agree with a post, I may be trashing someone's opinion that matters dearly to them, even though I may not agree with it or see the logic.   

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, Intoscience said:

careful not to post too much which generated negative feedback though else your number may go down. Remember, its quality not quantity that counts.

And who decides the quality?

It's always a question of number's... 

[Intoscience]

12 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

And who decides the quality?

It's always a question of number's... 

You,

Depends on what you want to gain from it. If you want lots of likes then post lots of things people like to hear. Or if you want to be true to yourself then post what you feel, believe in, agree with, disagree with... honesty. 

[Michael McMahon]

A dilemma with humility is that poor people cannot compete against rich people unless poor people are proud. Capitalism limits how humble we can be when we’re not guaranteed a job. Maybe humility isn’t fully knowable in the physical world and is more of a metaphysical virtue. Perhaps the way we interpret others as equal in a humble way is relative to our goals in life. The only way for humility to outcompete pride in the workplace is if humble people were militant which isn’t feasible in most settings. Maybe humility as an objective virtue could only be assessed in an afterlife. A downside of humility is that it’s very easy for a criminal to portray themselves as relaxed to those who don’t know the criminal’s background. That’s why traits of apathy don’t always correspond to humility even if we’re still meant to be reserved. Focusing on humility in isolation might mean that upward mobility in society could be reduced. Humility might one of those virtues where if everyone were humble then it’d be easy for anyone to be humble. Rich people aren’t always proud in their disposition but are capable of being passively proud of their background. This is why any public students who don’t study very hard aren’t always the most humble if others had to compete for a career against privately educated students. The irony of European mixed economies is that rich people are often secluded from poor people even if everyone is tolerant. A lot of poor people actually don’t even know of any rich people in their lives. This is why Christianity can trump capitalism for ethics when helping people still means you often have to be personal towards them. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Michael McMahon

[dimreepr]

13 hours ago, Michael McMahon said:

A dilemma with humility is that poor people cannot compete against rich people unless poor people are proud. Capitalism limits how humble we can be when we’re not guaranteed a job. Maybe humility isn’t fully knowable in the physical world and is more of a metaphysical virtue.

There's a reason Jesus said "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God", it's only a dilemma for the proud; it's akin to declaring, "I'm a self made millionaire", in that it's total bollox.

On 2/6/2023 at 3:20 PM, Intoscience said:

If you want lots of likes then post lots of things people like to hear.

When have you known me to do that?

[Intoscience]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

When have you known me to do that?

I never said you had, I was just pointing out that to gain likes you may need to gain popularity and establish this within the community.

This can be achieved 2 ways. 1. You post concise and informative information that is objective, non bias, with respect to others and without a clear personal agenda other than educating the reader. 2. you post lots of nice things agree with and/or support other popular members, so to gain their traction for yourself.

Or you can be honest, show some integrity, post as per you own personality, beliefs, ideas, opinions... still showing respect towards other members and see how the land lies from there.  

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Intoscience said:

I never said you had, I was just pointing out that to gain likes you may need to gain popularity and establish this within the community.

That was a joke, sorry sometimes I forget the emoji.

[Genady]

8 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

declaring, "I'm a self made millionaire", in that it's total bollox.

It might be OT, but since you said this several times in different posts, I wonder, why do you say this.

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, Genady said:

It might be OT, but since you said this several times in different posts, I wonder, why do you say this.

However brilliant the entrepreneurs, they can't make a million on a deserted island.

 

[Genady]

Just now, dimreepr said:

However brilliant the entrepreneurs, they can't make a million on a deserted island.

 

Ah, sure. But I don't think this is what a "self made millionaire" means.

[dimreepr]

Just now, Genady said:

Ah, sure. But I don't think this is what a "self made millionaire" means.

What do you think it means?

[Genady]

2 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

What do you think it means?

"self made" = "by one's own actions".

It says nothing about the environment in which actions are taken. Particularly, it does not say that are taken in empty space / on a deserted island. 

[Intoscience]

4 minutes ago, Genady said:

"self made" = "by one's own actions".

It says nothing about the environment in which actions are taken. Particularly, it does not say that are taken in empty space / on a deserted island. 

In my personal experience, I have met and got to know around a dozen or so "self-made millionaires" all bar non share a type of personality that is ruthless, extremely selfish, unsympathetic, greedy, and tight. As pretty much depicted by the character scrooge but hidden behind a cloak showing a face of care and compassion. 

Obviously not all self made people are of this type, some just happen to be lucky, or have their talent recognised and rewarded. 

[Genady]

1 minute ago, Intoscience said:

In my personal experience, I have met and got to know around a dozen or so "self-made millionaires" all bar non share a type of personality that is ruthless, extremely selfish, unsympathetic, greedy, and tight. As pretty much depicted by the character scrooge but hidden behind a cloak showing a face of care and compassion. 

Obviously not all self made people are of this type, some just happen to be lucky, or have their talent recognised and rewarded. 

I agree with your both paragraphs. However, I want to add that in my personal experience, I have met and got to know many non-millionaires who are equally "ruthless, extremely selfish, unsympathetic, greedy, and tight... behind a cloak showing a face of care and compassion." I suspect that both categories are just people.

[dimreepr]

27 minutes ago, Genady said:

"self made" = "by one's own actions".

It says nothing about the environment in which actions are taken. Particularly, it does not say that are taken in empty space / on a deserted island. 

Exactly, it forgets about everyone who helps, the path finders, the path builders, the farmers, the waste removers; it's like a gold medalist that forgets to thank the parent for driving them to the swimming pool, where they were taught to swim, and the cleaner that kept it safe to swim in...