Suicide Prevention

[iNow]

I see. So you're completely disregarding my question. I suppose that means you concede maleness and femaleness have jack, and his other brother shit, to do with this.

[Michael McMahon]

On 12/12/2022 at 5:20 PM, iNow said:

I see. So you're completely disregarding my question. I suppose that means you concede maleness and femaleness have jack, and his other brother shit, to do with this.

 

The trouble with stereotypes is that they're always capable of being defeated through perverted logic. Yet the perversion will invariably end up causing far more unanticipated problems. Thus the original harm is sometimes better left the same where you've to be careful what you wish for. For example if suicide was deemed effeminate then you could theoretically have a suicide pact where a man and a woman kill each other. Yet the obvious limitation of such euthanasia-suicide hybridisation is that it might tempt sexist murder whenever you're anxious. It's hard to know how consensual it could be if they're both nude and one pressures the other into mutual death. So you'd solve the masculine dilemma of suicide at the risk of outright sadomasochism!

If someone was stranded on an island then suicide might not be viewed as sinful if they'd be forced into a life of hermeticism. It's an extreme analogy to compare it to how mental illness can isolate a patient. They're almost forced to deal with a collective metaphysical mystery and to resolve it as best they can as an individual. For example it's very hard for someone to concoct a new interpretation of spirituality to deal with a modern problem when it often takes millions of people to form a cultural spirituality and collective unconscious. 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Michael McMahon

[iNow]

I may just need glasses, but can’t see anything related to my question. 

On 12/6/2022 at 7:06 PM, iNow said:

Why does maleness and femaleness matter?

Which was a direct response to this comment:

On 12/6/2022 at 2:29 PM, Michael McMahon said:

Euthanasia would be problematic if suicidal women asked to be killed by men and vice versa!

 

Yet somehow you now say I’m using:

1 hour ago, Michael McMahon said:

perverted logic

???

This has kinda gone off the rails, so don’t bother answering. Hope you’re well. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by iNow

[Michael McMahon]

On 12/16/2022 at 12:45 AM, iNow said:

I may just need glasses, but can’t see anything related to my question.

 

Sexuality is a divisive subject when it comes to promiscuity. Religions often have beliefs about sexual sins even if these are a secondary topic to their supernatural beliefs. There'd be a high risk of false accusations and invasiveness if the sexuality of a patient was investigated by mental health staff. Yet sexuality isn't inherently stigmatising when it's biologically compulsory as an adult. Even those who choose to be abstinent could still entertain emotional sexuality rather than physical sexuality. After all a bachelor could just as easily say they felt so dominant over a woman that they didn't even need a woman to prove it! Anyway my point is that sexual intensity is actually a primitive way for your body to understand the state of your dualistic mind. For example so much of our nightly dreams and daily worries are invisible to the body. Yet the subtle way sexuality is activated correlates to your belief system in a profoundly indirect way. No scientist can actually prove why a physical orgasm produces pleasurable sensations even though no one would dispute that the mental sensation exists. So an impaired mindset would likely have a limited and distorted awareness of sexuality. Thus mental illness could be physically activated in the brain if it somehow detected any single instance of abnormal stimulation in the past. I'm not saying that mental illnesses are a result of hypersexuality. Yet the idea that the invisible nature of mental illnesses means that they're not physically objective is flawed. Dying by suicide technically means you'd be missing out on decades worth of sex!

Edited December 26, 2022 by Michael McMahon

[Michael McMahon]

No one said you'd to express emotions when describing pain. You can simply use intensifiers in a relaxed voice(!):

Hot teapot - Dougal in Fr Ted

 

Sometimes you can be very stoic in not caring at all about embarrassment in deference to the apathetic dominance of masculinity(!):

Tropic Thunder - Jack Black Slow-mo

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Michael McMahon

[Michael McMahon]

Psychosis isn't contagious but there's a slight risk of accidental aggravation of symptoms if diverging psychotic patients are exposed to each other's state of mind. Mental health hospitals can still be helpful in reminding psychotic patients that they're not alone in feeling the world is strange. Yet home stays for psychotic patients might sometimes be more relaxing for a few of them if a hospital is too crowded. As such involuntary confinement mightn't always be the best option if a patient is in remission and isn't homeless. Needless to say temporary overnight breaks at a relative's house is an alternative way to break up long stays in a psychiatric ward.

[Michael McMahon]

Single people are more prone to depression! Suicidal married people must only claim to be anxious and not depressed!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21HM5dTiqiM

Texas - Inner Smile

[Michael McMahon]

Maybe we underestimate how quickly a country can spiritually recover from warfare. A country like Ireland has a depressing history of colonisation through no fault of our own. Despite the economic booms Ireland's pre-independence culture seems a bit unrelatable. Likewise who knows how cohesive Europe would be in an alternate universe if we avoided both world wars. So maybe mental illness might be higher than natural if we contrasted our countries to the serenity of Asia. Asians have had longer periods of peace-time than the west even if it could be circular with a higher emphasis on meditation in Asia.

 

"Japan, 1600–1800 A.D.: The Edo period, also known as the Tokugawa period, is a time of relative peace and stability, following centuries of warfare and disruption."

https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/09/eaj.html

[Genady]

20 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

Asians

What is that? 

[Michael McMahon]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ERxDQfGzjfw&pp=ygUKdHJhbnNhYmxlZA%3D%3D

I've changed my mind - Paul Joseph Watson - Transableism/skin care add

 

Fasting helps us relate to poor people while barefoot pilgrimages help us empathise with elderly people. Simulating disability with blindfolds or ear muffs for a day or so could theoretically make us more charitable to the despair felt by disabled people. Who knows if handcuffs and leg cuffs could even be used to remind us of those in harsh jails! Yet deliberately disabling ourselves as a form of self-harm rather than as a failed suicide attempt can be subjective. The dilemma is that both good and evil people can be disabled in the same way that both good and evil people can be soldiers. As such disability in and of itself isn’t fully redemptive. Similarly suicide victims can lead both good and bad lives before their suicide where suicide shouldn’t define their entire ethics. 

[Michael McMahon]

A speculative disproof of suicide or mental illness being evil is that physical disability is itself not absolute due to the mind-body problem. For example many prehistoric and ancient societies had superlative physiques with a low report of congenital disability. The early founders of Christianity were also absolute in how transcendent they were in their religion. By contrast many modern societies aren’t committed to total evil nor to Christianity. As such many people might have unstable metaphysical systems when they’re not able to be their own Jesus or create a new religion. So who knows if their unconscious mind could collapse by ignoring physical systems like walking. Yet this would be a totally involuntary system where disabled people would have physical side-effects of a failed unconscious mind. Moreover many children are unable to have the mental focus to deal with a mental illness where the body could simply pre-empt mental stress by paralysing the body and hyper-focusing on all remaining systems. Moreover many societies may have inherited collective evil from past generations where an individual’s mindset might have accidentally been hysterical due to a collective psyche. As such collective evil could overwhelm a person’s unconscious mind unbeknownst to them and result in physical impairment. Religions claim God created the world and God created physically disabled babies. Yet a deistic God isn’t fully physical nor fully mental where a collective spirit might have resulted in congenital disability. For example genetics might seem so chaotic as to easily result in disability but the opposite interpretation is also possible. So for genetics to succeed so well in creating the irreducibly complex brain and heart that’d it’d appear unlikely for genetics to fail for superficial systems like musculature. A dilemma with stigmatising mental illness with sexual immorality is the same could be said for elderly impairments that were dormant from young adult and middle-aged romances. Truth be told mentally ill people are by definition extreme in their personalities where they might bear no relation to each other. An analogy is where ancient shamans were so different in their mythologies that they all could have passed as rival schizophrenics. 

The Beach 2000 Scene Daffy Explains The Beach 

[dimreepr]

6 hours ago, Michael McMahon said:

A speculative disproof of suicide or mental illness being evil is that physical disability is itself not absolute due to the mind-body problem. For example many prehistoric and ancient societies had superlative physiques with a low report of congenital disability. The early founders of Christianity were also absolute in how transcendent they were in their religion.

Sometimes absolutes are necessary, for those who are unable to understand the nuances of life; for instance, from time to time we all get sad and not want to 'be', and if I've got access to a gun it's easy to make the wrong decision; if society deems a gun/suicide to be evil and have consequences after death, then suicide becomes difficult today and gives one a chance to think about it again, in a better mood. 

[Michael McMahon]

On 5/27/2023 at 1:36 PM, dimreepr said:

Sometimes absolutes are necessary, for those who are unable to understand the nuances of life; for instance, from time to time we all get sad and not want to 'be', and if I've got access to a gun it's easy to make the wrong decision; if society deems a gun/suicide to be evil and have consequences after death, then suicide becomes difficult today and gives one a chance to think about it again, in a better mood. 

Mental illnesses tend to occur in people under extreme circumstances where mentally ill people could easily include the most extreme evil people, the most extreme ethical people and the most apathetic people ever. This is one reason why suicide is an individualistic phenomenon rather than a reflection of a single ethical system.

[dimreepr]

On 6/10/2023 at 8:32 AM, Michael McMahon said:

Mental illnesses tend to occur in people under extreme circumstances where mentally ill people could easily include the most extreme evil people, the most extreme ethical people and the most apathetic people ever. This is one reason why suicide is an individualistic phenomenon rather than a reflection of a single ethical system.

WTF are you talking about, mental illness tends to occur in mentally ill people, they don't tend to have a 'single ethical system', the sane people do, but then there's more than a 'single ethical system'...

[swansont]

On 6/10/2023 at 3:32 AM, Michael McMahon said:

Mental illnesses tend to occur in people under extreme circumstances where mentally ill people could easily include the most extreme evil people, the most extreme ethical people and the most apathetic people ever. This is one reason why suicide is an individualistic phenomenon rather than a reflection of a single ethical system.

!

Moderator Note

You need to cite some peer-reviewed work to support this position, because assertions aren’t going to cut it.

 

[Phi for All]

This has been getting more and more offensive, imo. Is this approach right to discuss suicide prevention, just throwing "this-seems-reasonable-to-me" observations against the wall to see if someone agrees? This is a very sensitive topic, and I want more rigor, FWIW.

[Michael McMahon]

On 6/13/2023 at 4:06 PM, Phi for All said:

This has been getting more and more offensive, imo. Is this approach right to discuss suicide prevention, just throwing "this-seems-reasonable-to-me" observations against the wall to see if someone agrees? This is a very sensitive topic, and I want more rigor, FWIW.

 

Sometimes it takes people being too sentimental about mental health and suicide to disprove the idea that all mentally ill and suicidal people are sentimental or romantic about their situation. Suicidal might not be very beautiful when they're ill but they'll be more beautiful when they recover! Suicidal people can spiritually weak but that doesn't always mean their mentally weak when they can still be strong in their physicality. Christina Aguilera's song might be a well-intentioned lesser evil to contrast with the neutrality of many mentally ill people.

Christina Aguilera - Beautiful:

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Michael McMahon

[Genady]

40 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

Suicidal people can spiritually weak but that doesn't always mean their mentally weak 

They are not "spiritually" weak, nor are they mentally weak. Where these ideas come from? What does it do in the science forum?

[Genady]

Is this OP talking to themselves? They never answered my questions. Did they ever answer anybody's question? What kind of discussion is it? Is it their personal blog?

Edited July 8, 2023 by Genady

[Phi for All]

20 hours ago, Michael McMahon said:

Sometimes it takes people being too sentimental about mental health and suicide to disprove the idea that all mentally ill and suicidal people are sentimental or romantic about their situation.

I have no idea what this sentence means. I can't believe it's in response to my post asking you for more rigor about a sensitive topic. I don't think "too sentimental" is a clinical diagnosis. I don't think "romantic" is a term most professionals use wrt suicide prevention. I can't find it anywhere in the literature I've read on the subject. Again, I find it a bit offensive that you're posting these highly subjective observations of yours as if they were part of some general mental health journey you're advocating. There are places for that kind of guesswork, but the Medical Sciences section of a science discussion forum isn't one of them. 

20 hours ago, Michael McMahon said:

Suicidal might not be very beautiful when they're ill but they'll be more beautiful when they recover!

I'm really concerned that someone trying to read this thread for help is going to take statements like this seriously, as if it's advice from a mental healthcare professional. 

20 hours ago, Michael McMahon said:

Suicidal people can spiritually weak but that doesn't always mean their mentally weak when they can still be strong in their physicality.

I've never heard a mental health expert talk about "spirituality" or anybody being "spiritually weak". You are NOT using clinical terminology, and your assessments are guesses that are either too broad to be meaningful or just word salad like the above. 

Science. Discussion. Forum.

[Michael McMahon]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

I've never heard a mental health expert talk about "spirituality" or anybody being "spiritually weak". You are NOT using clinical terminology, and your assessments are guesses that are either too broad to be meaningful or just word salad like the above.

Society has lots of social problems from wealth inequality to criminality. Hence mentally ill people can be a reflection of the good and bad qualities of the society they’re in. A dilemma with self-hatred is that those who also have a sarcastic persona are at risk of being unkind to those who’d like them. In other words you’d be liking an imitation of personality traits that they don’t like in either themselves or you. For example whispering or mumbling to others could be a form of self-hatred but it risks parodying those who sincerely have a humble, quiet or rural accent. Likewise asking random questions as a conversational style might be helpful in reducing the fear other shy people have by letting them know that anyone can say silly things by mistake. Yet it could also be a form of ungratefulness to those who are awkward in conversation. Hence a sarcastic persona is open-ended in terms of ethics. Someone who exaggerates how tense they feel through their body language are burdening other nervous people who feel too much empathy for them. On the flip side exaggerating your uptight demeanour could also relieve nervous people from the fear that they’re the most nervous people! Mental illnesses can be subjective meaning that they can be infiltrated by comedians which is I’m both self-critical and supportive of mental health. 

 

4 hours ago, Genady said:

 

Is this OP talking to themselves? They never answered my questions.

 

The thread is a few years old meaning that there might be too much complacency for me to give fast replies!

Edited July 8, 2023 by Michael McMahon

[Genady]

1 hour ago, Michael McMahon said:

The thread is a few years old meaning that there might be too much complacency for me to give fast replies!

Rest assured I will not bother you anymore.

[swansont]

1 hour ago, Michael McMahon said:

The thread is a few years old meaning that there might be too much complacency for me to give fast replies!

!

Moderator Note

I think the larger point is that you don’t seem to be addressing the issues that are raised, and there’s a decided lack of rigor.

 

[Michael McMahon]

On 7/8/2023 at 6:42 PM, swansont said:

!

Moderator Note

I think the larger point is that you don’t seem to be addressing the issues that are raised, and there’s a decided lack of rigor.

 

A mental health condition isn’t always fully communicable but art and music is capable of catching onto negative vibes. For example the kaleidoscopic song below parodies what would otherwise have been a dissociative emotion by equating happiness with rebellion without really defining what the rebellion is:

Katy Perry - This is How We Do

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Michael McMahon

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

Seeing as a pop song is generally not offered up as a peer-reviewed source, I don’t see why one would post it in response to a call for more rigor.

 

We’re done here. Don’t bring the subject up again .