A final Thought

[ed84c]

So far i have managed to avoid being drawn into the endless creationist discussions.

 

As far as im concerned im not a creationist, but there is one final thought i have, for those non creationist theists (such as myself).

 

All this data, we have been theorising, such as fossil records and the like and dna data, all comes through our senses; eyes ears etc.

 

Now if God created the universe, surely he could make sense the data incorrectly, e.g. where there is a G in the DNA sequence we "see" a D.

 

This may sound a bit far fetched and "crazy", but if God has tested people in the past to see how faithful they are, surely he could easily do this again to see who believes in what he says, and who believes in what people say.

 

woot.

[JPQuiceno]

Well ed, thats the problem with creating an "All-Mighty" god. Once you give an imaginary being "power to do anything" hence, defy logic, defy laws of physics, change anything, he has become an unproveable and unquestion being. For example, if scientist found a way to explain the universe, and how it began, that being could just "have created it for it to seem like that," and you could argue that we will never know, since we cant prove that some "being" created the universe to seem like it doesnt have a creator. So by giving somebeing ILLOGICAL powers, we throw all of science and knowledge out of the window, like David Hume said.

[ed84c]

he has become an unproveable being

 

I am talking about God ffs

[ydoaPs]

and what if i say a giant invisible, polka dotted mokey created the universe half an hour ago and made it look like it was created a long time ago? how could you disprove it? the main problem with creationism(besides the crazys) is that it is pawned off as science when it isn't and never will be a science.

[ed84c]

Just cos you cant prove it doesnt mean its not true.

[ydoaPs]

thank you for the classic creationist argument.

 

now doesn't that mean we should learn about the giant, invisible, polka dotted monkey in school?

[Ophiolite]

Now if God created the universe' date=' surely he could make sense the data incorrectly, e.g. where there is a G in the DNA sequence we "see" a D.

 

if God has tested people in the past to see how faithful they are, surely he could easily do this again to see who believes in what he says, and who believes in what people say. [/quote']I understand your point, but surely if he makes us see a "D" then that is his word. That is God talking to us. So whether we are theist, atheist or agnostic, the correct response is to accept the facts as we establish them.

[ed84c]

interesting point, but i still think that he could, potentiall, "trick us"

[ydoaPs]

as could the giant, invisible, polka dotted monkey!

[ed84c]

i see this descending into a FSM like discussion.

[ydoaPs]

and what stops the FSM from tricking us as well?

 

 

the fact remains, all of them are imaginary creatures(God, Monkey, FSM) and cannot be proved nor disproved. they are not science and should not be treated as such.

[ed84c]

but in which case you could be chasing a lie.

 

well i guess your right.

[Mokele]

but in which case you could be chasing a lie.

 

However, it would be a consistent lie, and consistent with all other lies, and the only source of information availible. Given that we live and exist through our senses, one could argue that the 'lie' is in fact simply a layer of reality, or even reality itself, since we effectively live in it. In fact, if there is nothing else and no way to escape this world of lies, then it effectively *is* reality, and the lies are truth, at least as far as we are concerned.

 

So what it boils down to is that either evolution is real, or a falsity that is part of an all-pervasive falsity we live in, and therefore also real in it's own way. Either way, it's real.

 

Mokele

[ed84c]

Interesting point. Very matrixy

[Mokele]

::puts on a suit and dark sunglasses, acting all cold and sinister::

 

Hello, Mr. ed84c....

 

Hobbits are a disease...Wait... ::calls offset:: Line!

[Phi for All]

This may sound a bit far fetched and "crazy", but if God has tested people in the past to see how faithful they are, surely he could easily do this again to see who believes in what he says, and who believes in what people say.

If God is "testing" people, then:

1. His textbook for the course has literally thousands of interpretations, so to believe in "what He says" is subjective to each reader.

2. Some people live their whole lives and die without ever hearing about your version of "what He says".

3. You only get the answers to the "test" when you die, leaving the huge possibility that you believed in God the wrong way.

 

A much more likely scenario than the omnipotent, omniscient God is a God who must follow the laws of the physical universe, but understands them at a far greater level than we do. This God would probably not have a problem with people who learn about science and believe what they see, as well as holding out for the possibility of something greater than they can understand at the present.