incineration process

[nora27]

Hi everyone. Sorry for the rather grim question, but  I'm trying to make sense of a murder case that happened recently in my country and I have very little trust in the authorities or the media at this point. Is it possible to burn a human body(15yearld, aprox 110 pounds)), using an aprox 1 meter(40 inches) cylindrical, improvised heater(opened at both ends), using  Vaseline and bitumen cardboard? The heater was supposedly placed on some kind of grill. And if so, how long would it take? How messy would it be? How bad would it smell? After 18 hours or less( the girl called the emergency line 3 times and it took the police 16 hours to find her and another 3 to brake in because they were waiting for a search warrant that wasn't even necessary), there were supposedly only calcined bone remains. Again I'm sorry if this violates your community rules, but I don't personally know any chemist

[nora27]

this is the case in question

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49149953

[John Cuthber]

A proper crematorium will destroy a body in 1 to 3 hours.

I don't see any reason to believe that it would be impossible to build an "amateur" one and do the job in 18 hrs.

I can't say I have any practical experience...

[nora27]

I see. But are the stuff he used, in theory,  enough to generate high temperatures like in a crematorium(especially since everything is big and compact there to keep the heat from getting out)? Could the extra hours compensate for a lower temperature? would Vaseline and bitumen cardboard cover any kind of smell or reduce the amount of smoke? The neighbors said they didn't see any smoke and had to be asked like 4 times to described a light smell of burned rag. A lot of people from nearby came right after this occurred and no one noticed any smell

[John Cuthber]

A wax candle burns at well over 1000C and vaseline is pretty similar to wax.

It seems likely that you could get a hot enough fire.

I have no idea how bad it would smell- not least because we don't know about the "design" of the burner.

But a big enough fire would certainly destroy a body and it would just smell like a fire.

[Strange]

The news story says nothing about incineration.

[nora27]

https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/30/romania-s-top-court-strikes-down-changes-to-criminal-code-as-anger-mounts-over-missing-tee

there are more details about the case available nationwide, like those about the way he did it but they weren't reported internationally. 

https://www.romaniajournal.ro/society-people/suspicions-mount-on-serial-killer-in-caracal-after-two-teen-girls-have-been-gone-missing-alleged-polices-late-intervention-following-girls-desperate-call/

Edited August 7, 2019 by nora27

[Sensei]

One of the most important things in burning process is availability of Oxygen. Somebody using e.g. Liquid Oxygen would burn something within seconds or minutes. In the normal circumstances, how fast something burns is limited by Oxygen from the air. But it could be easily accelerated by using powerful fans which will pump much larger amount of air (thus Oxygen).

 

That's why human invented bellows.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellows

"Several processes, such as metallurgical iron smelting and welding, require so much heat that they could only be developed after the invention, in antiquity, of the bellows. The bellows are used to deliver additional air to the fuel, raising the rate of combustion and therefore the heat output. "

 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Sensei

[nora27]

there was no mentions of  bellows just a metallic barrel without bottom or lid, placed on some kind of  grill and the fire was made underneath the grill. I imagine the grill would have to be very high to allow a big enough fire

https://www.digi24.ro/stiri/actualitate/justitie/seful-diicot-despre-butoiul-din-casa-lui-gheorghe-dinca-unde-au-fost-gasite-ramasite-este-un-arzator-improvizat-functioneaza-ca-soba-1167318

this is the actual article. 

The main issue for me is, this happened in a small town with high organized crime rates(drugs, human trafficking etc), tolerated in lack of a harsher word, by the police.  So whether he could've incinerate her that way or not is important.

Edited August 7, 2019 by nora27

[John Cuthber]

If the police wanted to know the answer they could repeat the experiment with the same barrel + fuels and using a small pig  in place of the victim.

If they don't try it, then it looks like they don't want to know.

[nora27]

I agree. The investigation has moved towards a lonely deranged serial killer from the start( although we didn't have one in 30 years and it's strange for pple like that to start in their 60s, they usually kill through their life). Anything that could indicate otherwise like the experiment in question, the 3 hard to detect phones he had, details from his past traceable in the system has been left out.

[dimreepr]

2 hours ago, nora27 said:

I agree. The investigation has moved towards a lonely deranged serial killer from the start( although we didn't have one in 30 years and it's strange for pple like that to start in their 60s, they usually kill through their life). Anything that could indicate otherwise like the experiment in question, the 3 hard to detect phones he had, details from his past traceable in the system has been left out.

As JC suggests, it's just a matter of a wick, fat and time...

We wear the wick, suffer the fat and endure the time...

[nora27]

I understand. I did suspect the girl is dead, regardless of who the killer was and what he did before that. I just wanted to make sure this is smt he could've done in that time frame and those part conditions. Thanx guys.