Niel Degrasse Tyson

[Wulphstein]

Niel Degrasse Tyson posted this video.  He mentioned aliens taking packages out of our closet and moving them to another dimension at 1:47.  Does this mean that popular science thinks that aliens could be living in a 4th spacial dimension?

[Strange]

11 minutes ago, Wulphstein said:

Does this mean that popular science thinks that aliens could be living in a 4th spacial dimension?

No. It is just an analogy (not a very useful one in my opinion) to show how higher dimensions would appear to those “stuck” with fewer. 

There are mathematical models that involve more than three spatial dimensions and this appears to be an attempt to give some insight into what that means. 

(This shouldn’t be in Speculations. Unless you are going to start arguing that there are 4 dimensional aliens)

Note: his aliens are not “in” the 4th dimension, they have 4 dimensions (ie they are “in” all 4, not just the 4th). This means they have access to, and can move thing in, a direction that we cannot perceive. (If it existed.)

[Phi for All]

35 minutes ago, Wulphstein said:

Niel Degrasse Tyson posted this video.  He mentioned aliens taking packages out of our closet and moving them to another dimension at 1:47.Does this mean that popular science thinks that aliens could be living in a 4th spacial dimension?

I think this means you're showing a cognitive bias that's hijacking your critical thinking skills. It's causing you to mis-hear, mis-read, and misinterpret what's really being presented.

My advice is to stop watching videos for your science, and start reading more. We're so used to video as an uninterrupted medium that we forget we're supposed to interrupt when we don't understand something. Reading and your natural pattern recognition are better tools for learning beyond the basics, imo.

[Ghideon]

12 minutes ago, Strange said:

It is just an analogy (not a very useful one in my opinion) to show how higher dimensions would appear to those “stuck” with fewer. 

I agree.  And the end the presentation moves into what I think is his purpose with the analogy: Some things that we describe correctly but that is not intuitive in our current models may make more sense in higher dimensions. And that is an aspect of what higher dimension physics are trying to establish. 

Note that as far as I can tell Niel Degrasse Tyson did not post nor create this video. The audio is from an interview made during the presentation of his book “Astrophysics for the rest of us”, Neil deGrasse Tyson answers questions about events that cannot be explained by our traditional senses. Longer version of the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM_HPAXwJFw. 

 

 

 

[Wulphstein]

8 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

I agree.  And the end the presentation moves into what I think is his purpose with the analogy: Some things that we describe correctly but that is not intuitive in our current models may make more sense in higher dimensions. And that is an aspect of what higher dimension physics are trying to establish. 

Note that as far as I can tell Niel Degrasse Tyson did not post nor create this video. The audio is from an interview made during the presentation of his book “Astrophysics for the rest of us”, Neil deGrasse Tyson answers questions about events that cannot be explained by our traditional senses. Longer version of the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM_HPAXwJFw. 

If Degrasse tyson did not create this video, then why do I recognize his voice?

I can't think of any possible reason why Degrasse would mention aliens taking packages from a closet and moving them into a 4th dimension of space, if he wasn't trying to attract the attention of people who think about that kind of stuff.

The video that you posted, he's bashing "eye witness testimony", which has nothing to do with 4th dimension aliens or the 4th dimension.

[Ghideon]

7 minutes ago, Wulphstein said:

If Degrasse tyson did not create this video, then why do I recognize his voice?

Because the makers of the video took the audio from the Degrasse interview?
Did you read the description of the video you posted?

Edit: Starting point for the audio "I'm at my desk": https://youtu.be/lM_HPAXwJFw?t=671. The audio from multiple locations of the interview has been used.  

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Ghideon

[Wulphstein]

4 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

Because the makers of the video took the audio from the Degrasse interview?
Did you read the description of the video you posted?
 

You're right.  I read the description.  Tyson does talk about the limits of what an ant can perceive, and comparing to the limits of what we could perceive if a 4D lifeform, like an alien, were to interact with our dimension.  As to the propaganda that there is no afterlife because science can't prove it, I am not moved.

One can infer that by talking about 4D aliens, he was trying to attract the interest of people who think about aliens.

[Strange]

6 minutes ago, Wulphstein said:

One can infer that by talking about 4D aliens, he was trying to attract the interest of people who think about aliens.

You could. But I wouldn’t 

[Wulphstein]

Just now, Strange said:

You could. But I wouldn’t

Why not?

[Ghideon]

5 minutes ago, Wulphstein said:

One can infer that by talking about 4D aliens, he was trying to attract the interest of people who think about aliens.

Or one can listen to the interview where he also talks about the cartoon movie Monsters Inc in the same section as he talks about aliens. But that part is not used in the video you posted. I prefer not to infer too much what Degrasse intended, when listening to a few extracts selected by another party and for another purpose. 

[Wulphstein]

2 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

Or one can listen to the interview where he also talks about the cartoon movie Monsters Inc in the same section as he talks about aliens. But that part is not used in the video you posted. I prefer not to infer too much what Degrasse intended, when listening to a few extracts selected by another party and for another purpose. 

The title of the video I posted is:  This will blow your mind:  how we could be living in other dimensions without knowing it.  It has Degrasse Tyson's voice talking about 4D aliens.  But I'm supposed to conclude he wasn't trying to interest people who think about aliens, because he was referring to the movie Monsters Inc.  Is that correct?

[Ghideon]

29 minutes ago, Wulphstein said:

The title of the video I posted is:  This will blow your mind:  how we could be living in other dimensions without knowing it.  It has Degrasse Tyson's voice talking about 4D aliens.  But I'm supposed to conclude he wasn't trying to interest people who think about aliens, because he was referring to the movie Monsters Inc.  Is that correct?

That is incorrect.

What is the science you wish to discuss in this thread?

Edited August 8, 2019 by Ghideon

[Wulphstein]

Just now, Ghideon said:

That is incorrect.

 

37 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

Or one can listen to the interview where he also talks about the cartoon movie Monsters Inc in the same section as he talks about aliens.

Do you think he was talking about the movie?  I don't understand what you're saying.

13 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

What is the science you wish to discuss in this thread?

So, in the video that you posted, in which the audio of the video that I watched comes from, Tyson spends 15 minutes bashing eye witness testimonial from near death experiencers.  But then, we are supposed to believe that superstring theory exists, based on zero evidence.  It requires ten dimensions to exist, but the existence of 3+1D of spacetime and 10+1D are just assumed to exist without a mechanism.  We get this "you have no soul" propaganda from "theoretical science" which says that the lowest form of evidence is testimonial science.

Well that is WRONG!  The lowest form of evidence is NO EVIDENCE.

[Phi for All]

!

Moderator Note

Moved from Speculations to The Lounge.

 

[QuantumT]

2 hours ago, Wulphstein said:

He mentioned aliens taking packages out of our closet and moving them to another dimension at 1:47.  Does this mean that popular science thinks that aliens could be living in a 4th spacial dimension?

He's talking about us living in a simulated reality. In that scenario, our universe would just be information inside one object (a computer) in another universe.
The word 'dimension' is just used to illustrate a different reality than we are in, not as a real reference to an extra dimension.

[Wulphstein]

1 minute ago, QuantumT said:

He's talking about us living in a simulated reality. In that scenario, our universe would just be information inside one object (a computer) in another universe.
The word 'dimension' is just used to illustrate a different reality than we are in, not as a real reference to an extra dimension.

I don't necessarily disagree with the  "computer simulation" theory.  I just need the physics community to tell us what the mechanism is.  How is time and space implemented.  If they can't, then they should work on that.  I have a guess, but I can't get the math to work.

[QuantumT]

1 minute ago, Wulphstein said:

I don't necessarily disagree with the  "computer simulation" theory.  I just need the physics community to tell us what the mechanism is.  How is time and space implemented.  If they can't, then they should work on that.  I have a guess, but I can't get the math to work.

Forget proving it. It's hopeless. But I've found seven "Easter eggs"!

[Strange]

7 minutes ago, QuantumT said:

He's talking about us living in a simulated reality. In that scenario, our universe would just be information inside one object (a computer) in another universe.
The word 'dimension' is just used to illustrate a different reality than we are in, not as a real reference to an extra dimension.

Not in the video posted here, he isn't.

 

[QuantumT]

5 minutes ago, Strange said:

Not in the video posted here, he isn't.

Ooops! You caught me being lazy and assuming. Shame on me!

[Ghideon]

56 minutes ago, Wulphstein said:

I don't understand what you're saying.

Ok. Just saying that the unedited* version had content about various stuff and analogies that is not necessary to be taken literally. One example was from a cartoon. 

58 minutes ago, Wulphstein said:

So, in the video that you posted, in which the audio of the video that I watched comes from, Tyson spends 15 minutes bashing eye witness testimonial from near death experiencers.  But then, we are supposed to believe that superstring theory exists, based on zero evidence.  It requires ten dimensions to exist, but the existence of 3+1D of spacetime and 10+1D are just assumed to exist without a mechanism.  We get this "you have no soul" propaganda from "theoretical science" which says that the lowest form of evidence is testimonial science.

Well that is WRONG!  The lowest form of evidence is NO EVIDENCE.

Ok.
I posted the video as a reference, to backup my claim regarding the audio. I don't really care about what is said in the video or its scientific qualities.

 

*) No I have not checked, and I do not intend to check, if there are other/better versions.

[Wulphstein]

5 hours ago, QuantumT said:

Forget proving it. It's hopeless. But I've found seven "Easter eggs"!

Now hold on. Let me explain. ,  There are some logical inconsistencies with the current understanding of physics. 

1.  Were told that the mechanism of gravity travels at the speed of light. But then, event horizons form when light can't escape the gravity well. So how can a mechanism make gravity work,  trap light, but also moves at c.

2. Why is the speed of light invariant for all inertial reference frames, as if the mechanism of time and space also moved at the speed of light. But then we're also told there is no medium. Just looking at the derivation for SR, it looks like something is moving at the speed of light in the stationary frame and the moving frame. 

3. The spacetime interval has a starting point, where the first event happened.  Then it looks like something expanded at the speed of light, for each reference frame.

I am getting the impression that the mechanism that creates spacetime is expanding from a point, like an event, and expanding at the speed of light.  

How is information always transmitted at the speed of light? Because, imo,  there are wavefronts starting at a point, and expanding as spherical wavefronts at the speed of light, 4pir^2 = 4pi(ct)^2. 

These spherical wavefronts have 3d geometry built into them.

If there is always a flow of these spherical wavefronts starting at a point, then it would like a flow of action is running continuously, running like a program, not a crystalized set of math equations.  It creates the effect of a light cone and also the holographic principle. 

Didn't mean to take up so many paragraphs,  but the concept is so crisp, and simple. 

There is more to say. 

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Wulphstein

[Wulphstein]

6 hours ago, Ghideon said:

Ok. Just saying that the unedited* version had content about various stuff and analogies that is not necessary to be taken literally. One example was from a cartoon. 

Ok.
I posted the video as a reference, to backup my claim regarding the audio. I don't really care about what is said in the video or its scientific qualities.

 

*) No I have not checked, and I do not intend to check, if there are other/better versions.

Ghideon, Its Tyson's mistake.

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

Wulphstein, just a general warning to ask that you refrain from straying into content covered in closed threads. 

 

[swansont]

17 hours ago, Wulphstein said:

Why not?

Because it's not a reasonable inference.

It's excerpts from an interview, and so what you are listening to may lack context, because you don't know what else was discussed.

Scientists can answer "what if" or "is it possible that" questions. It doesn't mean they are suggesting that their response is the likely answer, i.e. they are not advocating that scenario.

I can tell you that a proposal exists for using nuclear explosions as propulsion into space.(Project Orion). That doesn't tell you if I think it's a good idea.