Pascal's wager and atheism (split from What made you stop believing in God?)

[John Cuthber]

11 hours ago, dimreepr said:

 

Yep, but some can and some can't, but we all feel better when were forgiven our misdemeanours, whoever does it.

And the shameful thing is that the church says we are forgiven- by  someone's invisible friend-  but that "feeling better" is only legitimate when the forgiveness is from the one actually wronged.

 

Nasty bastards, aren't they?

[dimreepr]

11 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

And the shameful thing is that the church says we are forgiven- by  someone's invisible friend-  but that "feeling better" is only legitimate when the forgiveness is from the one actually wronged.

Are you suggesting 'feeling better' is conditional on who is legitimate (to a believer that's the priest)? Most people don't don't need to actually wrong another person in order to feel retched/down by there misdemeanours, and even those that do are still allowed to feel better when forgiven, even if it's by proxy.

Maybe, if ones crime is grievous, the feeling is amplified by the wronged doing the forgiving, but lets not forget we are all human and subject to the potential of humanities greatest heights as well as the most grievous atrocities.

 

[John Cuthber]

If I accidentally step on your toe should I apologise to some random stranger at a later date, or should I apologise to you?

[dimreepr]

18 hours ago, boo said:

it didn't even sound clever the first time ..... 

good luck with your "atheism"   LOL   

It wasn't meant to be clever, just mildly amusing. 

Since you have offered no arguments, for a few posts, only deflection tactics, I felt it legitimate to poke a little fun at them. 

You are of course welcome to post legitimate arguments to my points.

5 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

If I accidentally step on your toe should I apologise to some random stranger at a later date, or should I apologise to you?

If you get a chance to, and in an ideal world, yes; but there are a myriad reasons why you wouldn't or couldn't.

[J.C.MacSwell]

I think we are all going to the same place, or no place, regardless of whether you believe or don't believe...

Unless of course you try to cheat and take on Pascal's Wager...then you are going to Hell.

[boo]

46 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

It wasn't meant to be clever, just mildly amusing. 

eh, no, you were put on the spot and you ran out of things to say. thats what happened  LOL

Quote

Since you have offered no arguments, for a few posts, only deflection tactics, I felt it legitimate to poke a little fun at them. 

You are of course welcome to post legitimate arguments to my points.

sounds like a bad case of psychological projection 

and you know, for an "atheist" you seem awfully offended by atheism. funny that....  

 

[dimreepr]

20 minutes ago, boo said:

eh, no, you were put on the spot and you ran out of things to say. thats what happened  LOL

sounds like a bad case of psychological projection 

and you know, for an "atheist" you seem awfully offended by atheism. funny that....  

The law of the hole is in two parts:

1. Don't follow the rabbit, if you know what you'll see...

2. If you find yourself in one, stop digging...

 

20 minutes ago, boo said:

and you know, for an "atheist" you seem awfully offended by atheism. funny that....

LOL, well you're new here...

Edited August 24, 2019 by dimreepr

[iNow]

Guys - This powerful amounts of dumb.  Time to focus on bridge building instead of poo tossing and fire starting. 

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, iNow said:

Guys - This powerful amounts of dumb.  Time to focus on bridge building instead of poo tossing and fire starting. 

I am a monkey, I'm programmed too toss...

[boo]

9 minutes ago, iNow said:

Guys - This powerful amounts of dumb.  Time to focus on bridge building instead of poo tossing and fire starting. 

well said 

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, boo said:

well said 

Don't you feel better, now that he's forgiven you?

[boo]

12 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

 I'm programmed too toss...

i just have nothing more to add  to that LOL

good luck !

[J.C.MacSwell]

3 minutes ago, boo said:

i just have nothing more to add  to that LOL

good luck !

Might want to increase your fibre intake.

[dimreepr]

4 minutes ago, boo said:

i just have nothing more to add  to that LOL

good luck !

You've had nothing to add for a page and a half...

[iNow]

On 8/22/2019 at 9:06 AM, boo said:

 i dont think the atheist is 'betting' on anything. i think they are just being honest with themselves. I for example, dont think belief is a choice. I could try to believe ,but then i will have these constant voices nagging at me with questions like "but what about this? and what about that?". you just cant believe in something which doesn't hold up.

This is an important point that deserves more focus. In many ways, belief just happens and we can’t simply will ourselves to believe something. We can pretend to believe, or we can delude ourselves about believing, but when it comes to ACTUALLY believing that’s sort of something that just happens. We either do or we don’t. 

Need an example? Try believing that Zeus cares whether you shine your shoes, or that the ocean is made of Pepsi. You can’t. It’s dishonest to suggest otherwise. 

[dimreepr]

15 minutes ago, iNow said:

This is an important point that deserves more focus. In many ways, belief just happens and we can’t simply will ourselves to believe something. We can pretend to believe, or we can delude ourselves about believing, but when it comes to ACTUALLY believing that’s sort of something that just happens. We either do or we don’t.

Which depends on our past, but which we often extrapolate into our future; for better or worse. But by way of acceptance, or forgiveness, of that past we can mitigate against the worst of our future.

Edited August 24, 2019 by dimreepr

[John Cuthber]

4 hours ago, dimreepr said:

4 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

If I accidentally step on your toe should I apologise to some random stranger at a later date, or should I apologise to you?

If you get a chance to, and in an ideal world, yes; but there are a myriad reasons why you wouldn't or couldn't.

And I think we can agree that I should feel some sort of "relief" at getting the chance to do so. 
Both of us will be happier if I apologise to you for stepping on your toe. Such behaviour is socially "useful".

 

My point is that, if I (knowingly) apologise to some random stranger instead, I don't "deserve" that sense of satisfaction.

 

Religious confession is where you wrong someone, apologise to your imaginary friend, and feel that you did something useful in doing so.

[dimreepr]

20 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

My point is that, if I (knowingly) apologise to some random stranger instead, I don't "deserve" that sense of satisfaction.

Firstly your random stranger is their priest and secondly why don't you deserve to feel better?

20 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Religious confession is where you wrong someone, apologise to your imaginary friend, and feel that you did something useful in doing so.

If I wronged you by standing standing on your toes but:

I was in a hurry and didn't have time to apologies.

I was unbalanced by standing on your toe and didn't get a look at you.

I was with a bunch of my peers, in my formative years, and our bonding game was toe stamping.

Etc...

Whatever my motive or outcome I deserve to feel better, and I don't care if that comes from someone I trust or through my own acceptance of my flawed self.

 

 

My mother is the reason I have very low self esteem (a double edged sword) because of her flaws (she's a human) and I forgive her for that. When I confronted her about it she was already aware and so sad because of it; she may have been faking, but it really doesn't matter if she was, because that would also be a human flaw; and even if she never heard my forgiveness she would still deserve it. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by dimreepr

[iNow]

One can choose to accept past mistakes and feel better without apologizing to imaginary friends. Your points are valid, dimreepr, they’re just tangential to John’s point. 

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, boo said:

against whom?  nobody on this thread said that they don't or shouldn't have that right. 

Well then we're all agreed, people are allowed to have their religions... 

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

"Tangential to the point" sums up several posts, and many have been split off to the trash.

The subject of this thread is Pascal's wager and atheism. Subjects outside of that are off-topic.