Merge USA and Canada?

[Moreno]

What do you think about USA and Canada unification? Do you think US govt. would support a Canadian politician who would promote such idea?

Edited August 23, 2019 by Moreno

[iNow]

As long as the US gets all of the control and access to resources, yes. The government would support it. 

More specifically, it depends entirely on how this gets done and what agreements are made. Just asking about a vague merger isn’t detailed enough to answer in a probabilistic way. 

[zapatos]

What does "unification" mean? If it means making one country called "Amer-ada" then no, it will never happen, and will not be supported by any Canadian politician who actually wishes to be elected to office.

[Moreno]

21 minutes ago, iNow said:

As long as the US gets all of the control and access to resources, yes. The government would support it. 

More specifically, it depends entirely on how this gets done and what agreements are made. Just asking about a vague merger isn’t detailed enough to answer in a probabilistic way. 

Now 90% of Canadian natural resources and lands officially belongs to Canadian govt. Obviously if Canada will become part of US all this resources will be controlled from Washington, DC.

[zapatos]

1 minute ago, Moreno said:

Now 90% of Canadian natural resources and lands officially belongs to Canadian govt. Obviously if Canada will become part of US all this resources will be controlled from Washington, DC.

I thought you said 'unification', not 'conquest'.

[J.C.MacSwell]

Aren't you guys busy enough buying Greenland?

[Sensei]

C:\Users\Sensei>change mode sarcasms on

Better merge with Mexico, at least you will save money on "the great wall"..

C:\Users\Sensei>change mode sarcasms off

 

[Moreno]

will not be supported by any Canadian politician who actually wishes to be elected to office

7 hours ago, zapatos said:

will not be supported by any Canadian politician who actually wishes to be elected to office.

Why not?

[John Cuthber]

5 minutes ago, Moreno said:

will not be supported by any Canadian politician who actually wishes to be elected to office

Why not?

Because Canadians don't want Trump, or his sort of  politician.
The question isn't why not, but why?

What would Canadians gain?

[geordief]

USA should try merging with itself before it casts its eyes elsewhere.

 

I have no idea why anyone imagines this might be a sensible idea but Goodwin forbids me going too far down that road of enquiry.

[rangerx]

The greatest thing about being Canadian, is that we're not American.

Every day, I thank my lucky stars for that.

[Strange]

9 hours ago, zapatos said:

I thought you said 'unification', not 'conquest'.

Maybe in Moreno's language there is no difference. Like Russia "unifying" the Crimean Peninsula. Or Britain "unifying" its Imperial territories.

[iNow]

In fairness, nations around the world are consolidating and newer super-regions who share governance in various ways aren’t out of the realm of possibility. This extends well beyond just the US and Canada, though. 

[rangerx]

2 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Because Canadians don't want Trump, or his sort of  politician.
The question isn't why not, but why?

What would Canadians gain?

Exactly, we'd gain nothing but the unresolved problems of America.

We use the parliamentary system, which was protested by Americans. So that begs the question, under who's terms?

There's no way Canada would ever capitulate to the American system and I doubt America would re-adopt the old ways.

We don't need to inherit America's shitty gun laws, even shittier health care system and hyper-partisan tribalism.

There used to be a time when Americans would say, if they wanted Canada they'd just take it. In recent times, America has proven it's unable to secure even the smallest countries (Vietnam, Iraq etc) no less major one's. It's that kind of narrow-minded arrogance that make the discussion a non-starter.

[Strange]

24 minutes ago, rangerx said:

There's no way Canada would ever capitulate to the American system and I doubt America would re-adopt the old ways.

How would Americans feel about having the Queen as their head of state!? (I'm sure there are plenty of Canadians who aren't crazy about it)

[J.C.MacSwell]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

How would Americans feel about having the Queen as their head of state!? (I'm sure there are plenty of Canadians who aren't crazy about it)

It does bother me when she tells some of us to go back where we came from...

...oh wait...she doesn't do that.

[zapatos]

2 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

It does bother me when she tells some of us to go back where we came from...

...oh wait...she doesn't do that.

Using Trump as a measure of success is not setting the bar very high.

[rangerx]

1 hour ago, zapatos said:

Using Trump as a measure of success is not setting the bar very high.

When half the country follows him, that's where the bar is set.

Thing is, even when Trump is gone, America will still be what it is.

 

3 hours ago, Strange said:

How would Americans feel about having the Queen as their head of state!? (I'm sure there are plenty of Canadians who aren't crazy about it)

We used to be in the commonwealth. The queen isn't our monarch. We don't pay her anything and she doesn't decree. Trudeau Sr. patriated our constitution a half century ago.

Our constitution is a modern document though, something that is not amended and absent of contentious clauses that authoritarians love to cling to, like guns.

[Strange]

7 minutes ago, rangerx said:

We used to be in the commonwealth. The queen isn't our monarch.

Are you sure: 

Quote

In today's constitutional monarchy, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II is Queen of Canadaand Canada's Head of State.

https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/crown-canada/about.html

Quote

The Commonwealth of Nations is made up of 53 countries, including Canada

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/commonwealth

[zapatos]

17 minutes ago, rangerx said:

When half the country follows him, that's where the bar is set.

Thing is, even when Trump is gone, America will still be what it is.

Then don't use Trump as the bar. Be specific and say the country itself sucks.

[J.C.MacSwell]

3 hours ago, zapatos said:

Then don't use Trump as the bar. Be specific and say the country itself sucks.

 

8 hours ago, rangerx said:

The greatest thing about being Canadian, is that we're not American.

Every day, I thank my lucky stars for that.

Everyday I remind myself how lucky I am not have been born in Canada and grown up as a Canadian...

...but I'm also thankful for having grown up as a North American.

There are problems everywhere. We are fortunate to have to deal with First World ones.

[rangerx]

3 hours ago, Strange said:

Are you sure: 

https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/crown-canada/about.html

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/commonwealth

You're correct. However,  I suppose it's fair to suggest the commonwealth isn't much more than an agreement in principle. We have a governor general who does what the queen would have otherwise done. The queen doesn't appoint the GG, the prime minister does and that's who they are accountable to.

Probably the best example of commonwealth validity is the use of foreign consulates. If I were to walk into a consulate, say in Australia they might assist me, but are under no obligation to do so. It might have some clout when it comes to immigration, but the processes are the same as anyone wishing to emigrate.

Our constitution is a sovereign one. Other than during times of war,  we don't cling to the commonwealth (or even our interpretation of it) for political discourse.
 

24 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

 

Everyday I remind myself how lucky I am not have been born in Canada and grown up as a Canadian...

...but I'm also thankful for having grown up as a North American.

There are problems everywhere. We are fortunate to have to deal with First World ones.

We have an election on the horizon, but mark my words we'll see some of the American antics rear their ugly heads. I'm already seeing Russian bots and dunderheads posting fallacies about paying off terrorists or giving money to refugees instead of veterans sort of bullshit.

With three parties (more if you count Greens) we tend to vote the man, not the party. I voted NDP last time around, because I personally know the man and he's represented us well. Certainly better than the conservatives or liberals that gerrymandered or otherwise pillaged their way around this riding in the past.

You never hear the term un-Canadian used when disagreements arise. That whole America love it or leave it thing  died in the sixties, but still gets kicked around in America. More than ever recently. Patriotism isn't measured by how many Chinese made flags we can buy and clutter our yards with. We view that as stolen valor. Other than a flag on our backpacks while traveling, we carry flags only when asked, as an honor to the country, not ourselves or political alignment.

[J.C.MacSwell]

7 minutes ago, rangerx said:

You're correct. However,  I suppose it's fair to suggest the commonwealth isn't much more than an agreement in principle. We have a governor general who does what the queen would have otherwise done. The queen doesn't appoint the GG, the prime minister does and that's who they are accountable to.

Probably the best example of commonwealth validity is the use of foreign consulates. If I were to walk into a consulate, say in Australia they might assist me, but are under no obligation to do so. It might have some clout when it comes to immigration, but the processes are the same as anyone wishing to emigrate.

Our constitution is a sovereign one. Other than during times of war,  we don't cling to the commonwealth (or even our interpretation of it) for political discourse.
 

We have an election on the horizon, but mark my words we'll see some of the American antics rear their ugly heads. I'm already seeing Russian bots and dunderheads posting fallacies about paying off terrorists or giving money to refugees instead of veterans sort of bullshit.

With three parties (more if you count Greens) we tend to vote the man, not the party. I voted NDP last time around, because I personally know the man and he's represented us well. Certainly better than the conservatives or liberals that gerrymandered or otherwise pillaged their way around this riding in the past.

You never hear the term un-Canadian used when disagreements arise. That whole America love it or leave it thing  died in the sixties, but still gets kicked around in America. More than ever recently. Patriotism isn't measured by how many Chinese made flags we can buy and clutter our yards with. We view that as stolen valor. Other than a flag on our backpacks while traveling, we carry flags only when asked, as an honor to the country, not ourselves or political alignment.

One thing to keep in mind. Rough figures, there are 10 times as many Americans as Canadians. Multiply by 10 all the questionable things attributed to Canadians and you get a fairer comparison...also as you mentioned...three main political parties...if two get in a pissing match the third makes hay in the Sun.

[rangerx]

2 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

One thing to keep in mind. Rough figures, there are 10 times as many Americans as Canadians. Multiply by 10 all the questionable things attributed to Canadians and you get a fairer comparison...also as you mentioned...three main political parties...if two get in a pissing match the third makes hay in the Sun.

Yes. Which is why you rarely see political talking points used to divide. For example, abortion or healthcare. Even a knuckle dragger like Harper avoided those issues like a plague, knowing full well it would have been political suicide. Sheer's going to try, but he'll just hand it to Trudeau for doing so. I'm no fan of Trudeau either, he can piss off with his little pipeline as far as BC goes.

Even if elections don't go well, we accept them as the law of the land. We generally understand it's the will of the people, not the lobbyists or party leaders deciding for us.

[Strange]

46 minutes ago, rangerx said:

With three parties (more if you count Greens) we tend to vote the man, not the party. I voted NDP last time around, because I personally know the man and he's represented us well. Certainly better than the conservatives or liberals that gerrymandered or otherwise pillaged their way around this riding in the past.

Does Canada have a proportional voting system or first past the post?