fredreload Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 We agree that our DNA defines our body shape including the brain. Therefore, the core of the brain, brain stem(consciousness) and other core structures are defined in the DNA in letters. After we are born, we start to gain brain plasticity that forms the memory, therefore the memory is not defined in the DNA letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredreload Posted September 3, 2019 Author Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) Ya, but cloning, I would say it is pretty close to the original consciousness, I'm not sure what the difference would be. Edited September 3, 2019 by fredreload Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Before we are born a myriad of variables are manipulating the basic design presented by DNA, indeed even the DNA of the gametes is undergoing some modification prior to conception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 4 hours ago, fredreload said: We agree that our DNA defines our body shape including the brain. No. Or, at least, only in general terms. Body shape is at least as much defined by environment as by genetics. The wiring of the brain even more so. Quote After we are born, we start to gain brain plasticity that forms the memory Plasticity starts as soon as the brain starts to develop. 4 hours ago, fredreload said: the memory is not defined in the DNA letters. The mechanism for memory is; the contents of memory aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredreload Posted September 3, 2019 Author Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Strange said: No. Or, at least, only in general terms. Body shape is at least as much defined by environment as by genetics. The wiring of the brain even more so. Plasticity starts as soon as the brain starts to develop. The mechanism for memory is; the contents of memory aren't. Thanks for the correction, pretty detailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredreload Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) The idea is, you can swap in your own brain structure's genetic letters that comprise the consciousness into another person's DNA, therefore when you clone that person's DNA with the modified brain structure it would contain your consciousness Edited September 4, 2019 by fredreload Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 hours ago, fredreload said: The idea is, you can swap in your own brain structure's genetic letters that comprise the consciousness into another person's DNA, therefore when you clone that person's DNA with the modified brain structure it would contain your consciousness Even if DNA had a more direct control over brain structure than it does, that would not work because that control would only happen during development. It isn't responsible for storing memories, experience and everything else that makes your brain "you". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredreload Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Strange said: Even if DNA had a more direct control over brain structure than it does, that would not work because that control would only happen during development. It isn't responsible for storing memories, experience and everything else that makes your brain "you". Yes I know, but all that matters is consciousness. If I get hit on the head and lose some memory, does that makes me a different being? No, my consciousness remains the same, and it has been since birth. I could lose a life time of memory but still alive. Saying which is no fun of course, I'll look into memory manipulation some time later P.S. Though I want to know why clones or twins does not have the same consciousness, although they are largely similar that one twin seems to be able to read his pair's mind Edited September 4, 2019 by fredreload Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 18 minutes ago, fredreload said: If I get hit on the head and lose some memory, does that makes me a different being? No, my consciousness remains the same, and it has been since birth. This misunderstanding seems to be one source of your confusion. If you disagree, I’d very much like to see you support this (almost certainly false) assertion with evidence that scales appropriately with the claim. 20 minutes ago, fredreload said: I want to know why clones or twins does not have the same consciousness It’s probably because consciousness and self identity are shaped by experience, the connections in our nervous system are plastic, and they are not based directly on DNA in the way you seem to believe. Others have already explained this to you and your confusion will persist until you really take this in and incorporate this correction into your thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 40 minutes ago, fredreload said: Yes I know, but all that matters is consciousness. If I get hit on the head and lose some memory, does that makes me a different being? It makes you a slightly different person. In the sense that you are now a person who has experienced (and has a merry of) being hit on the head. All of your experiences in life contribute to "who you are". Few, if any, of them change your DNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredreload Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 On 9/4/2019 at 8:55 PM, Strange said: It makes you a slightly different person. In the sense that you are now a person who has experienced (and has a merry of) being hit on the head. All of your experiences in life contribute to "who you are". Few, if any, of them change your DNA. Well ya, I don't need a English lecture on this = =. But we know my consciousness remains the same whether I hit my head or not. On 9/4/2019 at 2:55 PM, Strange said: Even if DNA had a more direct control over brain structure than it does, that would not work because that control would only happen during development. This is the part that I need, I suppose this would be our agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, fredreload said: But we know my consciousness remains the same whether I hit my head or not. Your consciousness (in the sense of "who you are") and the physical structure of your brain depends on all the experiences you have in your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 3 hours ago, fredreload said: we know my consciousness remains the same whether I hit my head or not. Who is this "we" you mention? I disagree. I think you're badly mistaken. I've asked you to support your assertion, the one you just repeated. Still waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredreload Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, iNow said: Who is this "we" you mention? I disagree. I think you're badly mistaken. I've asked you to support your assertion, the one you just repeated. Still waiting. Alright, assuming I start taking out parts of my brain, when do I become unconscious? When I take out the brain stem. But can I prove that I do not become a different person as soon as I take out the first chunk? No I cannot in terms of Evil Demon theory. But that is in no way stopping me from achieving immortality with the dream groups though. This is what observation is based on, we use our best estimate. Could an Evil Demon alter our senses to see the result of an experiment? Sure there could be, is that going to stop me from publishing my paper, probably not Edited September 5, 2019 by fredreload -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, fredreload said: Alright, assuming I start taking out parts of my brain, when do I become unconscious? Depends on which definition of consciousness you’re using, doesn’t it? Also, the answer depends on which parts you remove, in what order, and by which process, but I won’t belabor that part. 1 hour ago, fredreload said: can I prove that I do not become a different person as soon as I take out the first chunk Who’s talking about you becoming a different person? You’re moving the goalposts. You said your consciousness stays the same, not you as an entity or personality or whatever it is you’re talking about now. 1 hour ago, fredreload said: that is in no way stopping me from achieving immortality with the dream groups though Ohhh. Kay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 ! Moderator Note This forum is not intended for fiction based on bad understanding of science. Locked pending review. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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