Abusive Neighbor

[ku]

If I had had children and a neighbor who also has two children moves into my neighborhood, then if that neighbor threatens to harm my children, do I have the right to harm the neighbor's children if by harming the neighbors children (e.g. torturing them) I prevent my neighbor from harming my own children? What do you think?

[MetaFrizzics]

Are these your only good options?

 

"Are there no workhouses? Are there no prisions?" - Ebinezer Scrooge

 

But seriously, it seems critically important to actually establish what was said and done and how serious it was.

People often warn off neighbouring children using 'threats' for their bad behaviour.

 

And children are notorious liars and exaggerators when it comes to gossiping about incidents in which they are personally emotionally involved, or to get attention.

 

Thats why even Moses never stoned anyone to death without at least two innocent witnesses.

[Phi for All]

But seriously, it seems critically important to actually establish what was said and done and how serious it was.

How serious it was makes no difference. You do not have the right to harm anyone because of a threat. If you harm someone while actively defending yourself or your children (e.g., pushing them away as they lunge to strike), that's different. In this instance ku is asking to be the first one to actually harm a child.

[john5746]

If I had had children and a neighbor who also has two children moves into my neighborhood, then if that neighbor threatens to harm my children, do I have the right to harm the neighbor's children if by harming the neighbors children (e.g. torturing them) I prevent my neighbor from harming my own children? What do you think?

 

I think I know where you are going with this. Say the guy is a known predator who has raped, tortured and killed several children before and says yours are next. If I must kill his children to get to him, I think I would do it.

[Thomas Kirby]

Hopefully I get my 2 cents worth in before this thread is locked.

 

If the neighbor's children are causing trouble, get pictures of it and turn them in to the authorities. No one need be without a camera these days.

 

It's too obviously wrong to harm the children to get at the neighbor no matter what the neighbor is doing. Just one reason is because the children may also be his victims. He might even get off on someone harming them.

 

If he threatens to harm your children, tell police and social services.

 

I think that will do it.

[beautyundone]

if he's threatening your children, get a restraining order or move.

don't hurt his kids. they didn't do anything wrong to you. if you have to hurt someone, hurt him.

[john5746]

Obviously, in the real world, I would move, contact the authorities, etc. I was just saying hypothetically. Since this is in politics, I am assuming he is comparing it to how nations deal with threats. Nations can't contact any authorities or move anywhere. They must deal with it directly.

[Phi for All]

If he threatens to harm your children, tell police and social services.

This is, of course, the smartest move to make. Threatening children is taken very seriously.

 

I can't envision any scenario where hurting your neighbor's children would suddenly make him stop threatening to hurt yours. In fact, I think it might force him into acting on his threat.

 

I was also wondering why this was placed in Politics. Was it the legal aspect you were looking for or the political one?

[Thomas Kirby]

Nations deal with threats by hurting other people's children, this is true.

[In My Memory]

Ku,

 

If I had had children and a neighbor who also has two children moves into my neighborhood, then if that neighbor threatens to harm my children, do I have the right to harm the neighbor's children if by harming the neighbors children (e.g. torturing them) I prevent my neighbor from harming my own children?

No.

 

What do you think?

Call the cops.

 

Or, if you feel you are in genuine danger, pack up and go to a motel for the night, then call the cops.

[YT2095]

just out of curiosity, has he threatened any of your Other neighbors?

maybe it might be an idea to have a word with them also, the more people registering a legal complaint to the police, the better.

not only that, but you may just find that you could be saving others from equal anguish at the same time, it only takes ONE person to make a whole bunch of difference

[danny8522003]

i agree with john5746, i think ku is comparing this to how nations deal with such problems. I dont think problems like this should be fought via the 'children' but should be discussed and resolved by the 'adults'.

[ku]

I've been to the police but they are unable to do anything.

 

The neighbor has two children. If I harm one (maybe even kill her) with the threat of harming the other child, the neighbor won't harm my children because he likes his children. Otherwise, he'll try to harm my children. All children are innocent, including the neighbor's children, who may be victims of their abusive parent.

 

I have been told by some that harming (or torturing) the neighbors children is okay because it is their responsibility to oppose their parents.

[Thomas Kirby]

Get out of there, Ku, right now. Throw your clothes and kids in the car and leave.

 

Get help from a mental health professional.

 

These people are not worth what will be done to you if you do what you seem to be planning. If you truly are a good person, good people do not need another black eye on their reputations, and this will be one, don't fool yourself. Even your logic is bad. If you hurt or kill one of his children, he will happily do the same to you for revenge. He will even get a kick out of destroying you by turning you in to law enforcement. Then, you just don't know, but he has already threatened to hurt one of your children. You don't know when or how, but he is going to do something to that child. The first thing he gets to do is take away his father.

 

If you harm one of those children I personally will see to it that you are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[darkkazier]

i believe he is comparing it to the Iraq/ USA deal right now. but no you don't have the right ot harm anyone's children. you do have the right to deal with the adult that is causing the problems, but leave the kids out of it.

[MetaFrizzics]

(1) What country are you in? (or continent if you prefer not to tell).

 

(2) In what country/place/culture is torture allowed and seriously discussed by neighbours? (besides the US I mean).

 

Your original post is so shockingly off the wall or stupid that I must assume it is a hypothetical (double-blind taste test) scenario, for a psychology or politics class.

Rather than alarm people needlessly, can you confirm that this is hypothetical?

 

Your second post is equally disturbing. Can you explain yourself by say pointing to traditions or practises in your culture, religion or place of origin?

[beautyundone]

if you're going to hurt someone, hurt the neighbor himself. no need to make two innocent children suffer for their parents wrongdoings. if you got pulled over while you were driving drunk, would you want your children to go to jail instead of you? if you ticked someone off, would you want them to take it out on your kids?

[john5746]

The neighbor has two children. If I harm one (maybe even kill her) with the threat of harming the other child' date=' the neighbor won't harm my children because he likes his children. Otherwise, he'll try to harm my children. All children are innocent, including the neighbor's children, who may be victims of their abusive parent.[/quote']

 

Even if this holds true, maybe this will incite another neighbor or a friend to seek revenge on you or your children. You will increase the odds that your children will be harmed.

 

I have been told by some that harming (or torturing) the neighbors children is okay because it is their responsibility to oppose their parents.

 

In general, children are the responsibility of the Parents, not the other way around.

[YT2095]

The neighbor has two children. If I harm one (maybe even kill her)

 

I have been told by some that harming (or torturing) the neighbors children is okay because it is their responsibility to oppose their parents.

 

are you COMPLETELY off your rocker or just deliberately Trolling us?

[Bettina]

are you COMPLETELY off your rocker or just deliberately Trolling us?

 

My feeling exactly.....

 

Bettina

[Thomas Kirby]

In this case I would be happy to find out that he is a troll. It is by far the lesser of two evils.

[Pangloss]

Lol, I'll go along with that.

 

Maybe he just hates kids.

[ku]

Okay relax. This is hypothetical. My point is that the relationship between parent and child is virtually identical to the relationship between government and citizen. Government is defined as the "institution with a monopoly on coercion." Parents too have this power but as pointed out there is the police and government, so the parents don't actually have a monopoly (maybe a duopoly or an oligopoly), but if we take the police and government away, thereby giving the parent the most power, then effectively each parent is a country. E.g. parents giving kids pocket money is government welfare. A kid asking a parents for gifts is like special interest lobbying. Parents letting a private firm do the mowing (like Jim's Mowers) instead of the spouse is outsourcing. Parents adopting someone is the same as immigration.

 

But people tend to treat family versus nation as different, and this I believe has to do with the fact that things on a smaller scale are more real, concrete, and personal. However, on a macro level things become politicized, abstracted, and in this state many horrendous things are rationalized and accepted, such as killing of innocent civilians or torture of people for the national interest. This is related to Stalin's idea that one death is horrible but a million deaths is a statistic.

[YT2095]

well thank you for the clarification, not a moment too soon either!

you came VERY close by one or two members here from being reported to the police. I`m NOT joking!

 

in future will you PLEASE STATE that it`s Hypothetical from the start, it saves alot of misunderstandings and the possibility of rash actions, I`ll admit myself, that were your explaination other than the one you presented or similar, you may have faced an IWOP Ban before you could post again!

 

secondly, HAD you have drawn the comparison from the start, you`de have alot more usefull posts to read too

[Pangloss]

I agree that there's some validity to the comparison, but it only goes so far. People treat family and nation differently because they are different. The main difference is that children are not capable of acting in their best interest, lacking experience and wisdom that comes with age. There's a reason why you don't feed solid food to a newborn baby.

 

One of the reasons why this difference invalidates many comparisons is that adults can be educated and informed. Children, on the other hand, have to grow up to the point where they can understand. You can't, for example, over the space of a single speech, give a 3-year-old all the salient facts about fascism, human rights violations, geography, and economics, and then expect them to understand why it's a bad thing that the Sudetenland has just been invaded, and why you need to send troops there now. They simply won't understand, or be able to offer advice and consent.

 

So the comparison only works up to a point, and cannot be used, for example, to justify decisions or criticisms made by adults for adult reasons.